1 00:00:06,889 --> 00:00:04,130 Secrets cover-ups and strange phenomena 2 00:00:09,890 --> 00:00:06,899 UFOs and ideas that challenge reality 3 00:00:11,509 --> 00:00:09,900 itself all these Mysteries all this time 4 00:00:14,089 --> 00:00:11,519 are we ever going to get to the bottom 5 00:00:16,670 --> 00:00:14,099 of these my name is George Knapp I dig 6 00:00:18,950 --> 00:00:16,680 into news stories that others can't or 7 00:00:20,630 --> 00:00:18,960 won't I'm Jeremy Corbell and for some 8 00:00:22,670 --> 00:00:20,640 reason people tell me things they 9 00:00:24,910 --> 00:00:22,680 probably shouldn't 10 00:00:28,070 --> 00:00:24,920 and this is weapons 11 00:00:30,349 --> 00:00:28,080 [Music] 12 00:00:32,690 --> 00:00:30,359 welcome back this is weaponized 13 00:00:37,090 --> 00:00:32,700 yeah it is man it is definitely 14 00:00:40,250 --> 00:00:37,100 weaponized hey man this has been so cool 15 00:00:42,530 --> 00:00:40,260 getting these sessions where we get to 16 00:00:44,930 --> 00:00:42,540 talk and people just get kind of just 17 00:00:48,529 --> 00:00:44,940 get to hear our private conversations 18 00:00:49,369 --> 00:00:48,539 um releasing drop-in UFO bombs has been 19 00:00:52,369 --> 00:00:49,379 fun 20 00:00:54,529 --> 00:00:52,379 and we've just started but today I want 21 00:00:57,529 --> 00:00:54,539 to do something a little different which 22 00:00:58,970 --> 00:00:57,539 is that you you and I right so we're 23 00:01:00,650 --> 00:00:58,980 working together we work through the 24 00:01:02,029 --> 00:01:00,660 night we're going through documents and 25 00:01:04,549 --> 00:01:02,039 then you'll tell me a story 26 00:01:06,230 --> 00:01:04,559 and I'm like holy [\h__\h] let me record 27 00:01:08,149 --> 00:01:06,240 that and I just take my iPhone I'm like 28 00:01:11,510 --> 00:01:08,159 one day people gonna hear this full 29 00:01:13,609 --> 00:01:11,520 story the thing is that never happens so 30 00:01:15,910 --> 00:01:13,619 today I want to focus on a really 31 00:01:19,490 --> 00:01:15,920 important story that you once told me 32 00:01:21,590 --> 00:01:19,500 that I that has never been told all the 33 00:01:24,350 --> 00:01:21,600 way beginning to all the way to the end 34 00:01:26,270 --> 00:01:24,360 and I just think it's just so cool we 35 00:01:29,149 --> 00:01:26,280 get to do this today so 36 00:01:32,270 --> 00:01:29,159 the question I want to ask you is after 37 00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:32,280 you got hooked on the UFO thing with Bob 38 00:01:35,810 --> 00:01:33,360 Lazar 39 00:01:38,929 --> 00:01:35,820 and you as a journalist said I'm going 40 00:01:40,969 --> 00:01:38,939 to start getting sources like 12 people 41 00:01:43,190 --> 00:01:40,979 coming at you people shut down by the 42 00:01:46,010 --> 00:01:43,200 government you can tell that but you 43 00:01:48,770 --> 00:01:46,020 finally finally got to a credible 44 00:01:51,649 --> 00:01:48,780 individual who had Direct first-hand 45 00:01:53,330 --> 00:01:51,659 knowledge about UFOs exploitation 46 00:01:58,249 --> 00:01:53,340 reverse engineering 47 00:01:59,990 --> 00:01:58,259 and beings and and oh my God I want the 48 00:02:02,330 --> 00:02:00,000 world to hear this story 49 00:02:04,550 --> 00:02:02,340 tell us the story I've shared some of it 50 00:02:06,649 --> 00:02:04,560 in very broad Strokes over the years 51 00:02:09,290 --> 00:02:06,659 little bits and pieces of it without 52 00:02:12,050 --> 00:02:09,300 ever actually referencing in my 53 00:02:13,250 --> 00:02:12,060 statements the guy the source 54 00:02:15,530 --> 00:02:13,260 um but this will be the first time I've 55 00:02:17,750 --> 00:02:15,540 told it in totality and uh 56 00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:17,760 takes me back to when I first started in 57 00:02:22,850 --> 00:02:20,760 this it's 1989 klsdb we've put together 58 00:02:25,250 --> 00:02:22,860 we spend eight months working on this 59 00:02:27,949 --> 00:02:25,260 project called UFOs the best evidence 60 00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:27,959 nine part series it airs on television 61 00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:29,580 it's the biggest thing that's ever been 62 00:02:33,290 --> 00:02:32,160 produced for local TV to this date and 63 00:02:36,650 --> 00:02:33,300 and still 64 00:02:38,449 --> 00:02:36,660 um and along the way as I'm trying to 65 00:02:39,949 --> 00:02:38,459 find telling the story about Bob Lazar 66 00:02:43,490 --> 00:02:39,959 and his allegations about what was out 67 00:02:45,830 --> 00:02:43,500 there at S4 near Area 51 recovered discs 68 00:02:47,809 --> 00:02:45,840 uh alien technology being reverse 69 00:02:50,449 --> 00:02:47,819 engineered I'm looking for people who 70 00:02:53,150 --> 00:02:50,459 would support that and I found about two 71 00:02:54,050 --> 00:02:53,160 dozen uh people Witnesses who had worked 72 00:02:56,630 --> 00:02:54,060 out there 73 00:02:59,330 --> 00:02:56,640 who had seen bits and pieces who could 74 00:03:01,430 --> 00:02:59,340 corroborate parts of what Bob had said 75 00:03:03,229 --> 00:03:01,440 about these kind of crap being out there 76 00:03:06,710 --> 00:03:03,239 in the Nevada desert but there wasn't 77 00:03:09,290 --> 00:03:06,720 anybody big picture who knew as much as 78 00:03:12,350 --> 00:03:09,300 Lazar claimed to to have known so I was 79 00:03:14,330 --> 00:03:12,360 still looking for them in 1990 80 00:03:16,850 --> 00:03:14,340 I started working on a follow-up series 81 00:03:18,710 --> 00:03:16,860 to with best evidence looking for new 82 00:03:20,210 --> 00:03:18,720 Witnesses and I got a hint from an 83 00:03:23,149 --> 00:03:20,220 elected official that I had known I'd 84 00:03:25,369 --> 00:03:23,159 covered them in Nevada politics he says 85 00:03:27,229 --> 00:03:25,379 you know you should talk to my dad one 86 00:03:29,690 --> 00:03:27,239 of these days your dad yeah and they 87 00:03:32,210 --> 00:03:29,700 told me what the dad's name was and what 88 00:03:35,149 --> 00:03:32,220 he had done uh what job he had had and I 89 00:03:37,250 --> 00:03:35,159 said ah so I started stalking the guy I 90 00:03:39,770 --> 00:03:37,260 just started showing up at events where 91 00:03:43,910 --> 00:03:39,780 I knew he would be one of those events 92 00:03:46,490 --> 00:03:43,920 was a reunion for EG employees of EG so 93 00:03:49,789 --> 00:03:46,500 hold that back up for a second so to be 94 00:03:53,210 --> 00:03:49,799 clear you had kind of got hooked on the 95 00:03:55,130 --> 00:03:53,220 story of Bob Lazar you know there's UFOs 96 00:03:57,530 --> 00:03:55,140 being reverse engineered the power and 97 00:03:59,990 --> 00:03:57,540 propulsion there's nine flying saucers 98 00:04:04,250 --> 00:04:00,000 out of Papoose Lake a sub base of Area 99 00:04:06,949 --> 00:04:04,260 51 you broke this story globally through 100 00:04:09,890 --> 00:04:06,959 an interview he did which is the first 101 00:04:13,309 --> 00:04:09,900 time you ever saw but he was him but he 102 00:04:16,670 --> 00:04:13,319 was in silhouette and this goes bananas 103 00:04:19,729 --> 00:04:16,680 globally and you're like okay I his 104 00:04:21,770 --> 00:04:19,739 story it adds up if it but is it true so 105 00:04:25,310 --> 00:04:21,780 you're like I'm gonna try to find 106 00:04:28,610 --> 00:04:25,320 somebody that could verify or disprove 107 00:04:30,710 --> 00:04:28,620 Bob Lazar and you get a tip from a son 108 00:04:33,650 --> 00:04:30,720 it sounds like from a young from a 109 00:04:36,170 --> 00:04:33,660 family member's son and whoever the this 110 00:04:37,610 --> 00:04:36,180 person is whoever the name is they're 111 00:04:39,469 --> 00:04:37,620 credible enough like they're in a 112 00:04:41,390 --> 00:04:39,479 position to know and you mentioned EG 113 00:04:44,210 --> 00:04:41,400 and G so I'm assuming that this Source 114 00:04:48,110 --> 00:04:44,220 was working within EG in some capacity 115 00:04:52,790 --> 00:04:48,120 which is by the way who said Bob said 116 00:04:55,610 --> 00:04:52,800 hired him to go out to site for S4 at 117 00:04:58,070 --> 00:04:55,620 Area 51 so you're like okay I can now 118 00:04:59,689 --> 00:04:58,080 find out if this is [\h__\h] or if 119 00:05:01,610 --> 00:04:59,699 there's an element of truth to it is 120 00:05:04,310 --> 00:05:01,620 that do I have that pretty much correct 121 00:05:07,010 --> 00:05:04,320 yeah so I'm looking for someone whose 122 00:05:08,990 --> 00:05:07,020 credentials are impeccable unlike Bob 123 00:05:11,090 --> 00:05:09,000 whose credentials were questioned and 124 00:05:13,129 --> 00:05:11,100 people still attack him on where he went 125 00:05:16,010 --> 00:05:13,139 to school and where he worked and was he 126 00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:16,020 at Los Alamos this guy is documentable 127 00:05:20,270 --> 00:05:18,000 there's a paper trail of where he worked 128 00:05:22,129 --> 00:05:20,280 what he did there's no question that 129 00:05:24,170 --> 00:05:22,139 that he was in a position to know what 130 00:05:27,110 --> 00:05:24,180 was his what was his position he was the 131 00:05:30,830 --> 00:05:27,120 first general manager of EG in Nevada 132 00:05:33,230 --> 00:05:30,840 his name was Al O'Donnell and uh he has 133 00:05:36,350 --> 00:05:33,240 uh he's it's a prominent family 134 00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:36,360 um when I heard that EG and G was having 135 00:05:40,670 --> 00:05:38,639 a reunion I went there we took a camera 136 00:05:42,770 --> 00:05:40,680 this is a great chance to get him on 137 00:05:44,810 --> 00:05:42,780 camera before I started asking him the 138 00:05:47,210 --> 00:05:44,820 questions I really want to ask so you 139 00:05:50,390 --> 00:05:47,220 never you never knew this guy's name 140 00:05:52,430 --> 00:05:50,400 before you you find out you should talk 141 00:05:53,510 --> 00:05:52,440 to him from a family member obviously 142 00:05:55,909 --> 00:05:53,520 they're relating that to the idea of 143 00:05:58,730 --> 00:05:55,919 UFOs and you never approached the guy 144 00:06:01,969 --> 00:05:58,740 but just so happens there is this first 145 00:06:05,689 --> 00:06:01,979 kind of you know uh Gathering of the EG 146 00:06:07,550 --> 00:06:05,699 and G people and and and when you say he 147 00:06:09,529 --> 00:06:07,560 is a general manager like does that give 148 00:06:11,090 --> 00:06:09,539 him certain roles and responsibilities 149 00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:11,100 that would give him Insight like he's 150 00:06:14,870 --> 00:06:12,840 not a secretary so what does that mean 151 00:06:16,310 --> 00:06:14,880 he's the boss he was the boss of the 152 00:06:19,070 --> 00:06:16,320 Nevada office I'll tell you a little bit 153 00:06:20,810 --> 00:06:19,080 about EG and G so it was a company that 154 00:06:23,150 --> 00:06:20,820 was created in Boston right around the 155 00:06:25,490 --> 00:06:23,160 end of World War II Al O'Donnell had 156 00:06:27,650 --> 00:06:25,500 been in the Navy uh serving during the 157 00:06:29,450 --> 00:06:27,660 war he got out of the Navy while the war 158 00:06:31,430 --> 00:06:29,460 was still underway and went to work for 159 00:06:33,830 --> 00:06:31,440 a company called Raytheon which became 160 00:06:35,629 --> 00:06:33,840 this massive gigantic defense contractor 161 00:06:37,490 --> 00:06:35,639 that's still around today still in 162 00:06:39,890 --> 00:06:37,500 Nevada in fact yeah they've got a big 163 00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:39,900 connection to the UFO topic right but 164 00:06:43,610 --> 00:06:41,280 when you said Boston like where in 165 00:06:45,950 --> 00:06:43,620 Boston was it created well it's at MIT 166 00:06:48,230 --> 00:06:45,960 is where the program the company was 167 00:06:50,150 --> 00:06:48,240 born Edgerton germishausen and Greer 168 00:06:52,850 --> 00:06:50,160 were the three guys the EG and G and 169 00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:52,860 that they were at MIT scientists 170 00:06:57,350 --> 00:06:54,840 engineers they created this company 171 00:06:59,689 --> 00:06:57,360 there and Al O'Donnell who'd been 172 00:07:01,370 --> 00:06:59,699 working for Raytheon working on the 173 00:07:02,809 --> 00:07:01,380 Manhattan Project he didn't know he was 174 00:07:04,909 --> 00:07:02,819 working on the Manhattan Project but 175 00:07:07,129 --> 00:07:04,919 they were building these devices complex 176 00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:07,139 triggers that allow them to detonate 177 00:07:10,490 --> 00:07:09,120 nuclear weapons he learned later what he 178 00:07:13,189 --> 00:07:10,500 was doing was part of the Manhattan 179 00:07:15,950 --> 00:07:13,199 Project he goes to MIT starts working 180 00:07:18,110 --> 00:07:15,960 with the EG and G their their company in 181 00:07:20,270 --> 00:07:18,120 those days had I think 15 employees Al 182 00:07:22,309 --> 00:07:20,280 said so it was a very small startup but 183 00:07:24,890 --> 00:07:22,319 it suddenly exploded because the 184 00:07:27,770 --> 00:07:24,900 American Atomic program exploded in 185 00:07:29,330 --> 00:07:27,780 those years in 1950 186 00:07:31,370 --> 00:07:29,340 Harry Truman 187 00:07:33,170 --> 00:07:31,380 uh decides that we need a permanent 188 00:07:34,490 --> 00:07:33,180 nuclear testing site somewhere in the 189 00:07:36,350 --> 00:07:34,500 continental U.S so they looked at a 190 00:07:39,529 --> 00:07:36,360 bunch of places and they settled on 191 00:07:40,969 --> 00:07:39,539 Nevada uh prior to that Al O'Donnell had 192 00:07:43,969 --> 00:07:40,979 been sent out to the Pacific they had 193 00:07:46,309 --> 00:07:43,979 five these massive uh atomic bomb tests 194 00:07:48,770 --> 00:07:46,319 out in the Pacific and they decided to 195 00:07:51,050 --> 00:07:48,780 move it into a continental U.S a 196 00:07:52,490 --> 00:07:51,060 location and Nevada Nevada's test site 197 00:07:55,670 --> 00:07:52,500 that was called the Nevada Test Site 198 00:07:58,730 --> 00:07:55,680 those days was chosen Al O'Donnell leads 199 00:08:00,770 --> 00:07:58,740 the The Exodus from Boston out to Nevada 200 00:08:02,990 --> 00:08:00,780 they start hiring engineers and 201 00:08:06,050 --> 00:08:03,000 scientists physicists and other security 202 00:08:07,790 --> 00:08:06,060 spies what are they working on at this 203 00:08:09,830 --> 00:08:07,800 time when they make that move atomic 204 00:08:13,490 --> 00:08:09,840 bombs they're they're building testing 205 00:08:16,430 --> 00:08:13,500 atomic bombs EG and G was a a really 206 00:08:19,909 --> 00:08:16,440 precise uh organization that was created 207 00:08:22,129 --> 00:08:19,919 in order to detonate measure and 208 00:08:24,710 --> 00:08:22,139 photograph Atomic weapons if you look in 209 00:08:26,330 --> 00:08:24,720 the history of photography you'll see 210 00:08:28,850 --> 00:08:26,340 some of these amazing photos that they 211 00:08:31,010 --> 00:08:28,860 took of you know water drops dropping in 212 00:08:32,690 --> 00:08:31,020 water and they're pretty famous shots 213 00:08:34,969 --> 00:08:32,700 because of these cameras that they 214 00:08:37,370 --> 00:08:34,979 developed and was perfect for use in 215 00:08:40,430 --> 00:08:37,380 testing Atomic weapons and documenting 216 00:08:42,589 --> 00:08:40,440 what the process was so egg comes out to 217 00:08:44,810 --> 00:08:42,599 Las Vegas they are the managers of the 218 00:08:47,690 --> 00:08:44,820 Nevada test site they subsequently years 219 00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:47,700 later become the managers of Ira 51 when 220 00:08:51,650 --> 00:08:50,880 it opens in 1955. so alodonal is the top 221 00:08:53,930 --> 00:08:51,660 guy 222 00:08:56,690 --> 00:08:53,940 he oversees the nuclear testing program 223 00:08:58,790 --> 00:08:56,700 out there manages it for EG works with 224 00:09:00,829 --> 00:08:58,800 the atomic energy commission he has a 225 00:09:02,930 --> 00:09:00,839 top secret security clearance and he can 226 00:09:04,850 --> 00:09:02,940 go anywhere and see anything there's no 227 00:09:07,610 --> 00:09:04,860 basically no restrictions nothing that 228 00:09:10,850 --> 00:09:07,620 is outside of his ability to to find out 229 00:09:14,329 --> 00:09:10,860 and see so this is 230 00:09:16,910 --> 00:09:14,339 an impeccable resume this is somebody 231 00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:16,920 who was in position to know 232 00:09:22,850 --> 00:09:20,820 and would know if someone like Bob Lazar 233 00:09:26,030 --> 00:09:22,860 was telling the truth or or not telling 234 00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:26,040 truth I find it personally humorous that 235 00:09:32,449 --> 00:09:29,580 aging was it's it's Genesis its seed 236 00:09:34,070 --> 00:09:32,459 came from MIT right that's so funny if 237 00:09:35,930 --> 00:09:34,080 you know the babazar story right and 238 00:09:38,509 --> 00:09:35,940 then they become EG and G which we know 239 00:09:40,850 --> 00:09:38,519 is super [\h__\h] famous now and we'll 240 00:09:43,490 --> 00:09:40,860 get into those reasons I think why that 241 00:09:44,990 --> 00:09:43,500 where he works specifically and I know a 242 00:09:46,670 --> 00:09:45,000 little bit about that 243 00:09:50,509 --> 00:09:46,680 but go ahead and then I want to get back 244 00:09:53,449 --> 00:09:50,519 to where he worked so so late 1990 or 245 00:09:55,009 --> 00:09:53,459 early 1991 I'd have to look up the dates 246 00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,019 but somewhere in there is this event 247 00:09:58,790 --> 00:09:57,360 this EG reunion I go there we got a 248 00:10:00,530 --> 00:09:58,800 camera I interview Al O'Donnell 249 00:10:02,810 --> 00:10:00,540 introduce myself and say I'm really 250 00:10:04,670 --> 00:10:02,820 interested in this can we continue this 251 00:10:06,350 --> 00:10:04,680 conversation do you have that interview 252 00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:06,360 do you have to enter you have it yeah 253 00:10:09,949 --> 00:10:08,160 okay I hope we can get it and show it to 254 00:10:11,930 --> 00:10:09,959 people uh so he invites me to his home 255 00:10:13,130 --> 00:10:11,940 he says come on over we'll arrange to 256 00:10:14,449 --> 00:10:13,140 come over on a Saturday or something 257 00:10:16,190 --> 00:10:14,459 we'll sit down I'll go through my 258 00:10:18,470 --> 00:10:16,200 scrapbooks and show you some uh 259 00:10:20,630 --> 00:10:18,480 documents and memorabilia and photos 260 00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:20,640 from that era I said great so I go to 261 00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:22,080 his house 262 00:10:26,449 --> 00:10:24,720 um and meet his wife and we sit down he 263 00:10:27,889 --> 00:10:26,459 opens up these big scrapbooks and he can 264 00:10:30,050 --> 00:10:27,899 start showing me all the stuff that he 265 00:10:31,910 --> 00:10:30,060 had done photos that had been taken out 266 00:10:33,769 --> 00:10:31,920 in the proximity of these gigantic 267 00:10:35,690 --> 00:10:33,779 nuclear tests they had great stories 268 00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:35,700 about the camaraderie that developed 269 00:10:39,170 --> 00:10:37,920 among the engineers and scientists and 270 00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:39,180 he's going through all this stuff and 271 00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:40,680 showing me all this and I love it I 272 00:10:43,790 --> 00:10:42,360 loved every bit of it I've never had a 273 00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:43,800 bad day at the Valentine's sake by the 274 00:10:47,210 --> 00:10:45,600 way every time I've gone out there to do 275 00:10:49,069 --> 00:10:47,220 a story it's just a terrific way to 276 00:10:50,569 --> 00:10:49,079 spend some time how did they how did 277 00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:50,579 they let you in to So when you say 278 00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:53,820 Nevada Test Site Area 51 is a box it's a 279 00:10:58,610 --> 00:10:55,980 square on the map within the Nevada Test 280 00:11:00,350 --> 00:10:58,620 Site how do they feel about George Knapp 281 00:11:02,930 --> 00:11:00,360 investigative reporter who broke the 282 00:11:05,569 --> 00:11:02,940 area 51 story with babazar in 1989 283 00:11:08,030 --> 00:11:05,579 coming on to the Nevada Test how did 284 00:11:09,949 --> 00:11:08,040 they say yes to you coming on while I 285 00:11:11,329 --> 00:11:09,959 develop some friendships with the people 286 00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,339 who worked out there in their public 287 00:11:14,990 --> 00:11:12,959 affairs office there was a guy named 288 00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:15,000 Darwin Morgan who'd been a newsman at 289 00:11:18,350 --> 00:11:16,620 channel three there was another guy 290 00:11:19,850 --> 00:11:18,360 who's still there Daniel Burns who would 291 00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:19,860 work for channel three we were 292 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:21,360 competitors and colleagues but also 293 00:11:25,490 --> 00:11:23,220 friends and when they got those 294 00:11:27,230 --> 00:11:25,500 positions I started bugging them hey let 295 00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:27,240 me come out there because there's all 296 00:11:30,530 --> 00:11:28,740 kinds of stories you can do at the site 297 00:11:32,930 --> 00:11:30,540 where these nuclear weapons were blown 298 00:11:35,930 --> 00:11:32,940 up it's uh Doom town the old the town 299 00:11:37,790 --> 00:11:35,940 that was created just to see how a human 300 00:11:39,889 --> 00:11:37,800 civilization or a town would would 301 00:11:41,569 --> 00:11:39,899 withstand nuclear weapons uh there's 302 00:11:43,069 --> 00:11:41,579 great stories out there and they've 303 00:11:44,509 --> 00:11:43,079 helped me over the years so they they 304 00:11:46,490 --> 00:11:44,519 kind of got a kick out of it you know 305 00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:46,500 and there is in fact through the Nevada 306 00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:48,720 test site there is a road that leads 307 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:51,120 into Area 51 it's the it is a back way 308 00:11:55,130 --> 00:11:52,980 to go in there and they always joke with 309 00:11:57,170 --> 00:11:55,140 me when we drive by that by that road 310 00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:57,180 don't look that way you know we're 311 00:11:59,870 --> 00:11:58,800 driving with them in a car in the test 312 00:12:01,970 --> 00:11:59,880 site 313 00:12:04,130 --> 00:12:01,980 um so we did a lot of great stories of 314 00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:04,140 this site I love being out there and 315 00:12:08,509 --> 00:12:06,060 these guys were very helpful but so you 316 00:12:11,930 --> 00:12:08,519 have so people could see a bunch of news 317 00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:11,940 stories you've done over 35 years of 318 00:12:18,050 --> 00:12:15,000 just like normal Area 51 here's the 319 00:12:19,610 --> 00:12:18,060 stories right okay yeah so and there are 320 00:12:21,290 --> 00:12:19,620 a lot of there's a lot of really 321 00:12:23,930 --> 00:12:21,300 classified stuff that goes on out there 322 00:12:27,410 --> 00:12:23,940 unrelated to nuclear weapons unrelated 323 00:12:28,670 --> 00:12:27,420 to Area 51 and and the programs are 324 00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:28,680 going out there a lot of really cool 325 00:12:33,650 --> 00:12:30,000 stuff that we've covered over the years 326 00:12:36,769 --> 00:12:33,660 Secrets should be kept secrets are kept 327 00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:36,779 and you are proponent of keeping secrets 328 00:12:40,670 --> 00:12:38,399 when it's that kind of thing sure 329 00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:40,680 absolutely and and I've respected the 330 00:12:45,769 --> 00:12:42,600 boundaries that they set up for us and 331 00:12:47,389 --> 00:12:45,779 doing these kind of stories so uh I did 332 00:12:50,329 --> 00:12:47,399 go out to the Nevada Test Site a lot 333 00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:50,339 over the next 40 years or so and and and 334 00:12:54,350 --> 00:12:52,320 put together a lot of different stories 335 00:12:56,509 --> 00:12:54,360 and they knew of my interest in that 336 00:12:59,930 --> 00:12:56,519 area that's just outside what the Nevada 337 00:13:03,350 --> 00:12:59,940 Test Site place called area 51. in 1955 338 00:13:05,629 --> 00:13:03,360 Area 51 was basically created and um and 339 00:13:07,970 --> 00:13:05,639 EG and G got the contract to manage area 340 00:13:10,670 --> 00:13:07,980 51 and it kept it for the next 30 35 341 00:13:13,250 --> 00:13:10,680 years so whatever went on out there they 342 00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:13,260 had a they had an inside uh knowledge of 343 00:13:17,449 --> 00:13:15,480 what was going on so so you're going so 344 00:13:19,009 --> 00:13:17,459 you meet this guy aloe O'Donnell for the 345 00:13:20,810 --> 00:13:19,019 first time when you when he's at this 346 00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:20,820 public thing you say Hey you probably 347 00:13:24,050 --> 00:13:22,380 say something didn't like your son told 348 00:13:26,569 --> 00:13:24,060 me to talk to you or something whatever 349 00:13:28,610 --> 00:13:26,579 it ends up he invites you to his home 350 00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:28,620 and you're going through scrapbooks and 351 00:13:32,210 --> 00:13:30,540 he's showing you all this Atomic Testing 352 00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:32,220 stuff that he was involved with yeah and 353 00:13:35,210 --> 00:13:33,660 I'm selling him boy this is really 354 00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:35,220 interesting that's fascinating I'd love 355 00:13:39,410 --> 00:13:36,720 to do a story on it and after we're 356 00:13:41,629 --> 00:13:39,420 there for maybe two hours he closes this 357 00:13:43,310 --> 00:13:41,639 one big scrapbook and he goes you're not 358 00:13:45,650 --> 00:13:43,320 here to talk about this are you I said 359 00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:45,660 well not exactly he says I know what 360 00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:46,980 you're here to talk about I know what 361 00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,360 you want to ask about and right about 362 00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:50,160 that point his wife walks in and she 363 00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:52,320 says don't start telling him that stuff 364 00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:54,240 don't even tell him but he he kind of 365 00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:56,100 joked about it well what were you there 366 00:14:01,610 --> 00:13:59,279 to talk about UFOs UFOs Area 51 Bob 367 00:14:03,290 --> 00:14:01,620 Lazar crash saucers reverse engineering 368 00:14:05,150 --> 00:14:03,300 to see if he had any knowledge of that 369 00:14:07,490 --> 00:14:05,160 because I'd been led to believe that he 370 00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:07,500 did so he closes that book he says we'll 371 00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:09,480 have we'll get together another time 372 00:14:14,090 --> 00:14:11,700 uh and we'll talk about it in private 373 00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,100 and and over the course of the next two 374 00:14:19,009 --> 00:14:16,800 years or so he and I would meet at 375 00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:19,019 coffee shops and talk about it and I 376 00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:21,000 would ask him questions and really it 377 00:14:24,769 --> 00:14:22,800 was like pulling teeth it was he wanted 378 00:14:26,750 --> 00:14:24,779 to tell me stuff but he made me work at 379 00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,760 it and uh the condition was I couldn't 380 00:14:30,410 --> 00:14:28,800 take any notes I couldn't record it I 381 00:14:32,329 --> 00:14:30,420 couldn't take any notes so each time I'd 382 00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,339 meet with him I'd rush back to my car 383 00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:34,560 and start scribbling notes on pieces of 384 00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:36,240 paper so I'd remember everything that he 385 00:14:40,250 --> 00:14:38,160 said and the story that he told me that 386 00:14:42,530 --> 00:14:40,260 evolved over those couple of years was 387 00:14:44,449 --> 00:14:42,540 pretty fantastic he said that they did 388 00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,459 have a flying saucer that had been 389 00:14:48,769 --> 00:14:46,800 recovered from New Mexico I think he 390 00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:48,779 indicated that it had been taken from 391 00:14:52,910 --> 00:14:50,639 New Mexico to Wright-Patterson Air Force 392 00:14:54,350 --> 00:14:52,920 Base which is he never said Roswell but 393 00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:54,360 I think it was the Roswell incident is 394 00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:55,800 what he's talking about and and it 395 00:15:00,110 --> 00:14:57,720 confirms some of the details about what 396 00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:00,120 we know likely happened with the Roswell 397 00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:03,180 craft so this guy starts off with you 398 00:15:07,069 --> 00:15:05,040 know closing the book his wife's like 399 00:15:08,810 --> 00:15:07,079 don't tell him that stuff okay after 400 00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:08,820 this long period of time you go to this 401 00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:10,680 coffee shops he starts to tell you about 402 00:15:16,250 --> 00:15:13,680 UFOs but I'm wondering can this guy tell 403 00:15:17,629 --> 00:15:16,260 you about that like what how did it feel 404 00:15:19,790 --> 00:15:17,639 when he was telling you this story 405 00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:19,800 because he's you're you're kind of new 406 00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:22,560 to this UFO when he's telling you we 407 00:15:28,370 --> 00:15:25,260 have recovered a craft is what he's told 408 00:15:30,290 --> 00:15:28,380 you so far did he say it like like this 409 00:15:32,509 --> 00:15:30,300 is secret don't tell anybody yeah it was 410 00:15:34,730 --> 00:15:32,519 just from my knowledge my background and 411 00:15:37,790 --> 00:15:34,740 information it wasn't a story I could do 412 00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:37,800 then we're negotiating about how or when 413 00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:39,360 or if I could ever use that information 414 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:41,820 or make it public he told me the details 415 00:15:46,370 --> 00:15:43,620 about this craft he said that they had 416 00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:46,380 it had been stored at Indian Springs 417 00:15:50,329 --> 00:15:48,480 Indian Springs is an Air Force Base it's 418 00:15:52,850 --> 00:15:50,339 been there for a long time it's now 419 00:15:55,310 --> 00:15:52,860 called Creech Indian Springs existed 420 00:15:57,710 --> 00:15:55,320 before Area 51 was made but he says it 421 00:15:59,449 --> 00:15:57,720 was there they kept it there it might 422 00:16:01,850 --> 00:15:59,459 have been in an underground facility I'm 423 00:16:05,870 --> 00:16:01,860 not quite sure but then when Area 51 424 00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:05,880 after it opened in 1955 they moved it to 425 00:16:10,910 --> 00:16:08,639 an adjacent facility he didn't say it 426 00:16:12,050 --> 00:16:10,920 was S4 he didn't say it was Papoose but 427 00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,060 I think that's what he's talking about 428 00:16:14,990 --> 00:16:14,160 Papoose lake is where Bob Lazar said he 429 00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:15,000 worked 430 00:16:19,310 --> 00:16:17,040 and where they had built and built uh 431 00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,320 nine hangers underground disguised it to 432 00:16:23,329 --> 00:16:21,120 look like the desert and where they had 433 00:16:25,310 --> 00:16:23,339 other recovered craft he says they 434 00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:25,320 worked on this recovered craft reverse 435 00:16:28,610 --> 00:16:26,820 engineering trying to figure out how it 436 00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,620 worked who built it 437 00:16:31,730 --> 00:16:30,000 um whether or not they could duplicate 438 00:16:33,470 --> 00:16:31,740 the technology because apparently they 439 00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:33,480 thought this was pretty Advanced and 440 00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:34,980 they'd like to be able to build more of 441 00:16:39,889 --> 00:16:38,040 them so he's telling you also that 442 00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:39,899 that's what we were doing it was an 443 00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:41,279 adjacent place but we were doing that 444 00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:43,380 he's confirmed this guy this top of the 445 00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:46,079 level EG guy over coffee after all these 446 00:16:50,269 --> 00:16:48,060 sessions he's he's [\h__\h] telling you 447 00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:50,279 yeah and he says a very very closed 448 00:16:54,889 --> 00:16:52,380 program very small it was only I think 449 00:16:56,749 --> 00:16:54,899 five of them that were aware of it at 450 00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:56,759 least in the early stages who were 451 00:17:00,170 --> 00:16:58,680 working on this project and was very 452 00:17:02,210 --> 00:17:00,180 hush-hush and they didn't share it with 453 00:17:04,610 --> 00:17:02,220 anybody else in the company or anybody 454 00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:04,620 else in uh in the in the area or the 455 00:17:09,049 --> 00:17:07,140 military they just kept it themselves so 456 00:17:10,429 --> 00:17:09,059 after we're having these meetings and I 457 00:17:12,409 --> 00:17:10,439 go back and write down all these notes 458 00:17:14,510 --> 00:17:12,419 and stuff uh details about what he had 459 00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:14,520 shared with me we have another meeting 460 00:17:18,890 --> 00:17:17,579 at coffee shop and I said well gosh you 461 00:17:20,990 --> 00:17:18,900 know aren't you worried that it would 462 00:17:23,210 --> 00:17:21,000 get out that the word would get out and 463 00:17:25,309 --> 00:17:23,220 he says to me we were worried it would 464 00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:25,319 get out that's right I mean what it what 465 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:28,380 do you mean it it meaning alive being 466 00:17:32,750 --> 00:17:29,940 they had a live being out there I go 467 00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:32,760 what you had a live being an alien as 468 00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:33,840 well 469 00:17:37,789 --> 00:17:35,520 tell you the truth we didn't know what 470 00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,799 it was I said you know maybe it came 471 00:17:42,529 --> 00:17:39,840 from millions of miles away out in space 472 00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,539 and you're keeping it in a cage uh near 473 00:17:46,370 --> 00:17:44,880 area 51. he said to take the truth we 474 00:17:48,409 --> 00:17:46,380 couldn't communicate with it in the 475 00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:48,419 beginning we didn't know what it was we 476 00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,520 didn't know where it was from 477 00:17:56,510 --> 00:17:52,559 um and we didn't know what to do with it 478 00:17:58,669 --> 00:17:56,520 okay so this guy is kind of opening up 479 00:18:00,770 --> 00:17:58,679 to you and as a journalist at this point 480 00:18:03,289 --> 00:18:00,780 in your career and and going into 481 00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,299 digging into Bob's our story and hearing 482 00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:05,760 this this is the first time we start 483 00:18:12,590 --> 00:18:08,400 talking about a live like an operator of 484 00:18:15,169 --> 00:18:12,600 these vehicles so how did that how did 485 00:18:17,090 --> 00:18:15,179 you feel when he is a guy telling you a 486 00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:17,100 story how did that make you feel this is 487 00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:19,140 no longer just about craft or propulsion 488 00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:21,480 which is all that Bob was involved with 489 00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,760 but he saw documents that they showed me 490 00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:25,200 that Bob doesn't know if they're real or 491 00:18:28,370 --> 00:18:26,640 not really says I didn't see that I saw 492 00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:28,380 the propulsion system but he read a 493 00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:31,320 bunch of [\h__\h] when when O'Donnell says 494 00:18:36,890 --> 00:18:33,120 to you Al O'Donnell when he says to you 495 00:18:39,529 --> 00:18:36,900 we had a live alien a being 496 00:18:41,090 --> 00:18:39,539 obviously From Another World what was 497 00:18:43,549 --> 00:18:41,100 your feeling 498 00:18:45,650 --> 00:18:43,559 while I was overwhelmed because it was 499 00:18:47,330 --> 00:18:45,660 in effect confirmation of things that I 500 00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:47,340 had come to believe because of the 501 00:18:52,250 --> 00:18:50,100 reporting we'd already done uh and then 502 00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:52,260 the evidence of cover-ups and lies that 503 00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,940 have been told to the public here's this 504 00:18:57,890 --> 00:18:55,919 guy in a high position with the high 505 00:18:59,330 --> 00:18:57,900 security clearance telling me that it 506 00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:59,340 was true that they really did have a 507 00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:01,200 craft and they had a being my second 508 00:19:06,830 --> 00:19:03,840 feeling was one of overwhelming sadness 509 00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:06,840 for the uh the being whatever it was you 510 00:19:10,610 --> 00:19:08,940 know that was kept out there I asked him 511 00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,620 you know what had happened to what 512 00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:12,000 became of it he says I don't know I 513 00:19:15,710 --> 00:19:13,140 don't know what ever happened to it but 514 00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:15,720 he was out there for a while alive and 515 00:19:18,529 --> 00:19:17,039 eventually they figured out a way to 516 00:19:20,330 --> 00:19:18,539 communicate with it and so I asked him 517 00:19:22,250 --> 00:19:20,340 well what did it look like and he made 518 00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:22,260 me guess as he did with all these 519 00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:23,640 questions they made me guess he said 520 00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:25,559 well kind of looks like a a certain 521 00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,320 political candidate I said well who what 522 00:19:32,029 --> 00:19:30,240 a politically the other two and at the 523 00:19:33,650 --> 00:19:32,039 time Ross Perot was running for 524 00:19:36,169 --> 00:19:33,660 president he said it looks like Ross 525 00:19:38,690 --> 00:19:36,179 Perot a little skinny guy with uh big 526 00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:38,700 ears and a tiny head not a classic gray 527 00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:41,700 looking alien but a very odd looking uh 528 00:19:45,710 --> 00:19:43,260 creature with really big ears that 529 00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:45,720 looked like Ross Perot and I laughed and 530 00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:47,220 so we had these conversations for a 531 00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,360 while 532 00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:50,160 and I was blown away by the information 533 00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:52,559 they shared I took all these notes I did 534 00:19:56,330 --> 00:19:54,240 I was hoping that someday I might be 535 00:19:57,890 --> 00:19:56,340 able to get the information out and I 536 00:20:00,289 --> 00:19:57,900 asked him look you're getting up there 537 00:20:02,450 --> 00:20:00,299 in age can you if I can't record 538 00:20:04,909 --> 00:20:02,460 something with you could you record a 539 00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:04,919 statement the effect of tell me this 540 00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:07,679 story on camera and then when when you 541 00:20:11,630 --> 00:20:09,480 pass on I could have the tape and he 542 00:20:14,510 --> 00:20:11,640 said yeah he would do it you know look 543 00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,520 I've I've heard a lot of wild stories 544 00:20:20,150 --> 00:20:17,760 that I can't verify a guy's telling you 545 00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:20,160 something and you get a sense as a 546 00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,960 journalist when you go down a road with 547 00:20:24,830 --> 00:20:23,760 somebody and you take your time and you 548 00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:24,840 vet it 549 00:20:29,690 --> 00:20:27,660 did you feel I mean is there any world 550 00:20:31,850 --> 00:20:29,700 where he's trying to [\h__\h] with you or is 551 00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:31,860 there a world where he's 552 00:20:37,610 --> 00:20:35,520 um trying to you know just get you know 553 00:20:40,010 --> 00:20:37,620 kind of put crazy information into your 554 00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:40,020 brain like what did you how did you feel 555 00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:42,000 when he was telling you this was it was 556 00:20:45,950 --> 00:20:44,640 he like straight with you like explain 557 00:20:48,169 --> 00:20:45,960 that to me yeah he was very 558 00:20:50,810 --> 00:20:48,179 straightforward and again this was not 559 00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:50,820 information he was giving up willingly I 560 00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:53,280 mean I had to really dig and coax and 561 00:20:58,430 --> 00:20:55,620 arm twist to get him to cough things up 562 00:20:59,810 --> 00:20:58,440 and it was very slow going over about a 563 00:21:02,210 --> 00:20:59,820 two-year period maybe a little bit 564 00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:02,220 longer and I know that this you always 565 00:21:05,630 --> 00:21:03,960 have to be wary of people with different 566 00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:05,640 agendas and people that just make stuff 567 00:21:09,850 --> 00:21:07,440 up I didn't get that sense from him 568 00:21:12,529 --> 00:21:09,860 because of his standing in the community 569 00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:12,539 he had shared this story with members of 570 00:21:16,850 --> 00:21:15,000 his own family and that's how that's why 571 00:21:18,529 --> 00:21:16,860 they came to you is because they kind of 572 00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:18,539 give you a tip and these members of his 573 00:21:22,130 --> 00:21:20,160 family they they're 574 00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,140 um I mean they're serious people too 575 00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:24,720 yeah so the the I have a Sons is an FBI 576 00:21:28,909 --> 00:21:26,880 agent or was he's passed on now one of 577 00:21:31,130 --> 00:21:28,919 his senses in FBI one was an elected 578 00:21:33,710 --> 00:21:31,140 official elected official where in 579 00:21:35,690 --> 00:21:33,720 Nevada okay yeah I was the one that gave 580 00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:35,700 me the tip but uh so I just want to nail 581 00:21:40,010 --> 00:21:38,159 this in so I understand you were 582 00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,020 approached because he had shared this 583 00:21:44,330 --> 00:21:42,360 with his family privately and then you 584 00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:44,340 had to kind of like hoax to get through 585 00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:46,260 to him about the story right I think 586 00:21:48,529 --> 00:21:47,460 that's important because look these 587 00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:48,539 things don't happen like people just 588 00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,580 come to us and say you know crazy stuff 589 00:21:55,310 --> 00:21:52,320 and we're like oh yeah cool sounds good 590 00:21:57,230 --> 00:21:55,320 like the dynamic of that socially as a 591 00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:57,240 journalist like getting in there taking 592 00:22:01,970 --> 00:22:00,240 time you know we have to verify if what 593 00:22:04,490 --> 00:22:01,980 he said is true and there's there's some 594 00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:04,500 major bombs coming about that but it's 595 00:22:09,049 --> 00:22:07,080 like that process is so important so 596 00:22:10,909 --> 00:22:09,059 here you are you're sitting with them he 597 00:22:13,490 --> 00:22:10,919 tells you now they had a libel and you 598 00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:13,500 felt sad because you're an animal rights 599 00:22:18,110 --> 00:22:15,960 activist you you love animals I know 600 00:22:20,330 --> 00:22:18,120 with your cats at home and you do you've 601 00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:20,340 done horse stories and all you know all 602 00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:22,080 the stories about like the inhumane 603 00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:23,220 stuffed animals so it made you 604 00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:25,260 personally sad it makes me sad too not 605 00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:27,720 thinking about it but yeah well we had 606 00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:29,760 these series of meetings and then the 607 00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:32,220 last time we met after he'd agreed to go 608 00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:34,740 ahead and record a tape and give it to 609 00:22:39,169 --> 00:22:37,440 me after he make an arrangement so I got 610 00:22:41,810 --> 00:22:39,179 it after he passed on 611 00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:41,820 he said that he'd been told to not talk 612 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:44,100 to me anymore he said he's been given a 613 00:22:48,049 --> 00:22:46,080 warning that was not a good idea for him 614 00:22:49,789 --> 00:22:48,059 to talk to me anymore about anything not 615 00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:49,799 just that topic but anything well who 616 00:22:54,169 --> 00:22:51,720 knows that you're talking who would warn 617 00:22:55,610 --> 00:22:54,179 him I don't know I don't know but you'll 618 00:22:57,529 --> 00:22:55,620 recall back in those days there was 619 00:23:00,110 --> 00:22:57,539 surveillance we had our phones tapped at 620 00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:00,120 klasdb there were guys following us 621 00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:02,520 around me Bob Lazar Gene Huff maybe 622 00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,380 Robert Bigelow people were also coming 623 00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:06,960 to your news station OSI 624 00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:07,679 um 625 00:23:11,149 --> 00:23:09,480 and they would they would come in and 626 00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:11,159 try to like get to you and then they'd 627 00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,840 show you their card and as if they put 628 00:23:15,950 --> 00:23:14,640 it down then take it back and you know 629 00:23:17,810 --> 00:23:15,960 your phones are tapped so it's like 630 00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:17,820 because of this story all of a sudden 631 00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,679 you're on high alert so anybody could 632 00:23:23,090 --> 00:23:21,600 have called him and watching you have 633 00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:23,100 meetings with the guy but what so what 634 00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,600 you're saying is one day it just Dr he 635 00:23:28,010 --> 00:23:26,640 just said I can't I'm not allowed to 636 00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:28,020 talk to him yeah I've been told not to 637 00:23:31,130 --> 00:23:29,520 talk to you anymore I've been told not 638 00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:31,140 to that happened a lot to you during 639 00:23:35,570 --> 00:23:33,240 that time how many witnesses came 640 00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:35,580 forward to verify babazar's story and 641 00:23:39,230 --> 00:23:37,620 then got shut down and tell me one yeah 642 00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:39,240 a bunch of them I mean there were six 643 00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:41,700 right in a row that I spoke to on the 644 00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:43,919 phone who had agreed to meet with me and 645 00:23:48,770 --> 00:23:46,140 share the story some of them on camera 646 00:23:50,990 --> 00:23:48,780 who were visited the very next day one 647 00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,000 after another because I had put out a I 648 00:23:54,830 --> 00:23:53,520 I was overt about it asking people in 649 00:23:57,169 --> 00:23:54,840 the community I know there are people 650 00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:57,179 out there listening to this TV broadcast 651 00:24:01,549 --> 00:23:59,520 who have information about this 652 00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:01,559 come on and tell us about it yeah call 653 00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:04,559 me up and several of them did and one 654 00:24:08,090 --> 00:24:06,600 right after another six in a row that 655 00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:08,100 called me and agreed to do an interview 656 00:24:12,830 --> 00:24:11,100 were visited the next day and told to to 657 00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,840 shut the hell up okay so how did that 658 00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:14,400 feel as a journal so I've had a similar 659 00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:15,720 experience where you're talking with 660 00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:17,039 somebody and all of a sudden they're 661 00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:19,260 told not to talk with you by who is a 662 00:24:22,909 --> 00:24:21,720 mystery and then do they threaten them 663 00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:22,919 yeah they threatened them so there was 664 00:24:27,169 --> 00:24:24,780 one there was a cop that was a friend of 665 00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:27,179 mine he's just passed on as of last year 666 00:24:32,090 --> 00:24:30,000 who was a investigator police officer 667 00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:32,100 and then later became a chief 668 00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:33,720 investigator for the District Attorney's 669 00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:34,980 Office who worked at the County 670 00:24:40,010 --> 00:24:37,320 Courthouse after most stories came out 671 00:24:42,649 --> 00:24:40,020 in 1989 it's the it's the Talk of the 672 00:24:44,810 --> 00:24:42,659 Town it's everyone's buzzing about it 673 00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:44,820 and he got into a conversation with the 674 00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:46,559 lady who worked as a clerk in the county 675 00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:49,919 court system and she said she shared a 676 00:24:54,409 --> 00:24:51,720 story with him that she had previously 677 00:24:57,230 --> 00:24:54,419 worked for a defense contractor named 678 00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:57,240 Holmes and narber out at the test site 679 00:25:01,250 --> 00:24:59,280 and or on the Nellis Air Force Base 680 00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:01,260 right change that she said and on 681 00:25:05,090 --> 00:25:03,120 meetings between high-ranking Air Force 682 00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:05,100 officials and these defense contractors 683 00:25:10,370 --> 00:25:07,740 at which they discussed crashed saucers 684 00:25:12,770 --> 00:25:10,380 recovered materials and what sounded 685 00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,780 like a Roswell type incident and the 686 00:25:16,610 --> 00:25:15,120 security was so uh strict that after 687 00:25:18,409 --> 00:25:16,620 she's taken notes in these meetings 688 00:25:19,850 --> 00:25:18,419 they'd normally take the notes away from 689 00:25:21,970 --> 00:25:19,860 her but they'd take the typewriter 690 00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:21,980 ribbon of the typewriter and destroy it 691 00:25:26,990 --> 00:25:24,480 so the ribbon on the typewriter didn't 692 00:25:29,330 --> 00:25:27,000 have the words printed on it she told 693 00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:29,340 the story to this cop that I knew he 694 00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:31,020 told me the story I said hey do you 695 00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:32,880 think she talked to me well yeah she'd 696 00:25:36,110 --> 00:25:34,740 probably talk to you if you uh kept her 697 00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,120 name out of it kept her identity 698 00:25:39,890 --> 00:25:38,159 shielded and I said great so I talked to 699 00:25:42,110 --> 00:25:39,900 her on the phone a couple of days later 700 00:25:44,450 --> 00:25:42,120 she agreed to meet with me and give me 701 00:25:46,190 --> 00:25:44,460 the whole rundown on this story the very 702 00:25:48,289 --> 00:25:46,200 next day she gets a knock on the door by 703 00:25:50,930 --> 00:25:48,299 these two agents who said that they 704 00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:50,940 represented the the company that she had 705 00:25:55,250 --> 00:25:53,220 worked for this defense contractor and 706 00:25:58,370 --> 00:25:55,260 that she was still subject they reminded 707 00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:58,380 her she's still subject to uh her 708 00:26:01,909 --> 00:26:00,240 security clearances and missions that 709 00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:01,919 that she had agreed to and they said 710 00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:04,320 this we know that you travel to La a lot 711 00:26:07,970 --> 00:26:06,000 to see your daughter and that she comes 712 00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,980 here it's a big desert out there we'd 713 00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:09,360 hate for anything to happen to either 714 00:26:14,269 --> 00:26:12,120 one of you would she interpreted as a 715 00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:14,279 threat to her life and I think that's a 716 00:26:19,370 --> 00:26:16,140 pretty fair interpretation she was 717 00:26:21,049 --> 00:26:19,380 scared she was scared to death and it 718 00:26:22,669 --> 00:26:21,059 was a decade later that reached out to 719 00:26:23,930 --> 00:26:22,679 her again she was still scared and 720 00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:23,940 wouldn't talk to him a decade later 721 00:26:28,610 --> 00:26:25,260 she's still scared I won't talk to you 722 00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:28,620 so two questions one is is this female 723 00:26:34,130 --> 00:26:30,600 is she's still alive no she died two 724 00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:34,140 years ago oh man oh okay now the second 725 00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:36,960 thing is is who was the contractor 726 00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:38,940 Holmes and narber was the name of the 727 00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:42,120 Holmes and Arbor so they sent people who 728 00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,919 said so people came to her house 729 00:26:46,970 --> 00:26:45,360 basically who said they were from homes 730 00:26:49,010 --> 00:26:46,980 don't know if yeah don't know who they 731 00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:49,020 really were and they did threaten what 732 00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:50,400 she felt was a threat to her life to 733 00:26:56,210 --> 00:26:54,179 talk to you about crashed UFOs and and 734 00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,220 they see and that happened to you a lot 735 00:26:59,570 --> 00:26:58,080 during that time well six times right in 736 00:27:01,070 --> 00:26:59,580 a row within a three or four month 737 00:27:03,409 --> 00:27:01,080 period 738 00:27:06,409 --> 00:27:03,419 um there was a guy who was he did taxes 739 00:27:08,269 --> 00:27:06,419 for Air Force officials and he got to 740 00:27:10,010 --> 00:27:08,279 know some of these guys really well and 741 00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:10,020 they had told him a story about the 742 00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:11,700 Roswell crash they were watching a TV 743 00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:13,679 show on some out of town trip and said 744 00:27:18,289 --> 00:27:16,020 hey that that's real and he wanted to 745 00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:18,299 tell me that story and I said great I'll 746 00:27:22,909 --> 00:27:19,919 come over to see you tomorrow or the 747 00:27:24,289 --> 00:27:22,919 next day in between my visit he was 748 00:27:26,450 --> 00:27:24,299 visited by two guys who said they're 749 00:27:27,649 --> 00:27:26,460 from the Secret Service and they said we 750 00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:27,659 understand you've been making threats 751 00:27:30,169 --> 00:27:29,039 against the life of the president he 752 00:27:31,610 --> 00:27:30,179 said what are you talking about I never 753 00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:31,620 made such threats well look you can go 754 00:27:35,090 --> 00:27:33,179 to prison for this kind of thing you're 755 00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:35,100 going to keep your mouth your mouth shut 756 00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:37,440 you don't want to be flapping it which 757 00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:40,620 he and interpreted as being a threat to 758 00:27:44,810 --> 00:27:43,200 him to keep quiet it's it's clearly a 759 00:27:47,450 --> 00:27:44,820 threat so the thing is we don't know 760 00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:47,460 where these people are really coming 761 00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:49,320 from anybody the people show me their 762 00:27:53,810 --> 00:27:51,480 badges all the time anybody can make a 763 00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:53,820 badge so we don't know if that if 764 00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:56,159 they're actually from there and then to 765 00:27:59,930 --> 00:27:58,200 say something out of left field over 766 00:28:01,789 --> 00:27:59,940 Secret Service you're making threats 767 00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:01,799 against the president like obviously 768 00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:03,840 this person wasn't doing nothing of the 769 00:28:08,690 --> 00:28:06,840 sort this is UFO related someone is 770 00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:08,700 somehow knowing who you're talking with 771 00:28:12,890 --> 00:28:10,620 we know your phones are tapped at klas 772 00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:12,900 the news station and they're silencing 773 00:28:16,510 --> 00:28:14,520 Witnesses at this critical time of 774 00:28:19,730 --> 00:28:16,520 coming forward it really pissed me off 775 00:28:21,289 --> 00:28:19,740 because you know now we assume that 776 00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:21,299 people are listening to our phones and 777 00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:23,039 our conversations and monitoring email 778 00:28:27,169 --> 00:28:25,200 all of us have that sort of back out of 779 00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:27,179 our head that it all goes into some 780 00:28:31,250 --> 00:28:29,220 giant super computer somewhere that that 781 00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:31,260 nothing is truly private anymore but 782 00:28:36,169 --> 00:28:32,760 back then the idea that there are 783 00:28:38,090 --> 00:28:36,179 government entities operatives listening 784 00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,100 to the phone calls that come into a TV 785 00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:40,320 station a news reporter a journalist an 786 00:28:44,090 --> 00:28:41,520 investigative journalist that is 787 00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,100 outrageous that is that is spying on an 788 00:28:48,289 --> 00:28:46,080 American journalist and contacting 789 00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:48,299 sources and dissuading them through 790 00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:50,820 threats physical harm to not talk with 791 00:28:56,330 --> 00:28:52,799 you I can see what their position would 792 00:28:57,649 --> 00:28:56,340 be is that I had openly overtly asked 793 00:29:00,110 --> 00:28:57,659 people to go ahead and give me 794 00:29:02,090 --> 00:29:00,120 information and they were I can't 795 00:29:03,890 --> 00:29:02,100 imagine that they got a warrant to tap 796 00:29:06,110 --> 00:29:03,900 my phones they just did it and then they 797 00:29:07,730 --> 00:29:06,120 wanted to see if there's some kind of a 798 00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:07,740 security leak if there's a leak of 799 00:29:11,210 --> 00:29:09,480 information a class of information so 800 00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:11,220 they decided to listen well it happened 801 00:29:14,029 --> 00:29:13,140 again and again so I was trying to be 802 00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:14,039 careful 803 00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:16,500 um in dealing with Al this guy 804 00:29:22,430 --> 00:29:19,919 after he said no more I'll make that I 805 00:29:24,769 --> 00:29:22,440 recorded the conversation uh you know 806 00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:24,779 I'd recorded my presentation and you'll 807 00:29:27,889 --> 00:29:26,399 get it when I'm gone 808 00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:27,899 um I thought well I'll just wait you 809 00:29:34,430 --> 00:29:31,260 know exactly so to be clear this is a 810 00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:34,440 deathbed confession when he dies you're 811 00:29:39,710 --> 00:29:37,260 allowed to release his testimony about 812 00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:39,720 what he told you that's what he made for 813 00:29:44,930 --> 00:29:42,240 you that's that was the deal and uh I 814 00:29:47,090 --> 00:29:44,940 was told years later that he did in fact 815 00:29:49,070 --> 00:29:47,100 make that recording but it's never been 816 00:29:50,269 --> 00:29:49,080 given to me um there's a lot of things 817 00:29:51,470 --> 00:29:50,279 that I'm going to go into now that 818 00:29:55,250 --> 00:29:51,480 happen in between 819 00:29:57,710 --> 00:29:55,260 in late 1993 I was working for a company 820 00:30:00,169 --> 00:29:57,720 called Altamira and uh the guy was 821 00:30:02,389 --> 00:30:00,179 financing Don Williams is his name he 822 00:30:05,389 --> 00:30:02,399 died last year too and uh he was 823 00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:05,399 financing an ambitious UFO project that 824 00:30:09,169 --> 00:30:07,500 I had in mind which is producing a 825 00:30:10,669 --> 00:30:09,179 series of documentaries we traveled all 826 00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:10,679 over the world went to Russia a couple 827 00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:13,200 times went to all over the U.S to cattle 828 00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:15,179 mutilation sites UFO hot spots 829 00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:17,220 interviewing people uh in the course 830 00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:18,960 I've watched it what's the name it's 831 00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:20,880 UFO's the best evidence too that that 832 00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:23,760 same title we used in the klas series 833 00:30:29,389 --> 00:30:26,399 um so I get a call out of the blue from 834 00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:29,399 a a federal official I had worked with 835 00:30:34,430 --> 00:30:32,100 the U.S Senate he was I'll just say his 836 00:30:36,889 --> 00:30:34,440 name his name is Dick D'Amato 837 00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:36,899 Senator Robert Byrd who was the head of 838 00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:38,940 the money committee and most powerful 839 00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:41,580 lawmaker in Washington in those days or 840 00:30:48,110 --> 00:30:44,640 at least one of the top five uh was his 841 00:30:50,269 --> 00:30:48,120 boss and Dick D'Amato his job was to 842 00:30:51,769 --> 00:30:50,279 oversee black budget projects to see who 843 00:30:53,930 --> 00:30:51,779 was spending money where it was going 844 00:30:55,130 --> 00:30:53,940 and whether it was being spent on the 845 00:30:57,169 --> 00:30:55,140 things that Congress said it should be 846 00:30:58,909 --> 00:30:57,179 spent on okay so so now you're bringing 847 00:31:01,930 --> 00:30:58,919 in a guy named dick D'Amato who you're 848 00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:01,940 naming right and this dude is working 849 00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:04,860 within our government with this specific 850 00:31:12,049 --> 00:31:08,460 task of oversight of our sap special 851 00:31:15,649 --> 00:31:12,059 access programs or projects and he has 852 00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:15,659 access and clearances to get in and look 853 00:31:20,090 --> 00:31:17,940 at how the money is being spent he holds 854 00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:20,100 the purse strings so his clearance is he 855 00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:22,260 can go anywhere is the is the theory is 856 00:31:27,470 --> 00:31:25,260 the idea for our exploitation or secret 857 00:31:29,810 --> 00:31:27,480 projects that's who dick D'Amato exactly 858 00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:29,820 so he had been given the task by Senator 859 00:31:36,169 --> 00:31:33,000 Byrd and by my friend Senator Harry Reid 860 00:31:39,049 --> 00:31:36,179 to look into the UFO matter is this real 861 00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:39,059 is there something to it are legitimate 862 00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:41,520 National Security funds being 863 00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:44,220 transferred from some missile that we've 864 00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:45,960 we've uh that Congress has approved 865 00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:49,200 money for into programs to keep this UFO 866 00:31:52,909 --> 00:31:50,880 cover-up going on that was his premise 867 00:31:55,010 --> 00:31:52,919 that was the marching orders he was 868 00:31:57,230 --> 00:31:55,020 given by Senator Byrd and Senator Reid 869 00:31:58,970 --> 00:31:57,240 so he started educating himself about 870 00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:58,980 UFOs and he traveled around the country 871 00:32:02,930 --> 00:32:01,200 and met with four or five of us I know 872 00:32:05,630 --> 00:32:02,940 that Whitley strieber is one that he met 873 00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:05,640 with before me so so hold on he is being 874 00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:07,980 tasked by these you know upper UPS like 875 00:32:12,649 --> 00:32:10,559 Senator Harry Reid and whatnot to look 876 00:32:14,269 --> 00:32:12,659 specifically if money is being 877 00:32:18,049 --> 00:32:14,279 improperly used 878 00:32:20,510 --> 00:32:18,059 for UFO projects that was the day UFO 879 00:32:22,610 --> 00:32:20,520 projects and diverted from legitimate 880 00:32:24,289 --> 00:32:22,620 programs for which Congress has slotted 881 00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:24,299 the money and then diverted into 882 00:32:26,690 --> 00:32:25,500 something else to help keep this 883 00:32:28,850 --> 00:32:26,700 cover-up going 884 00:32:31,130 --> 00:32:28,860 is it real so he started educating 885 00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,140 himself about the broad picture of UFOs 886 00:32:34,909 --> 00:32:33,360 one of the people he talked to before me 887 00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:34,919 was Whitley strieber he went to the 888 00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:37,200 cabin uh Whitley's cabin and he told me 889 00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:38,399 he was pretty impressed by the whole 890 00:32:42,769 --> 00:32:41,039 story and then he came out to Nevada and 891 00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:42,779 uh we had a number of phone 892 00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:44,399 conversations before he made the visit 893 00:32:48,169 --> 00:32:46,140 and he came out he says I want to go out 894 00:32:49,970 --> 00:32:48,179 to Area 51 and look around I want to 895 00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:49,980 know if that Lazar story is true if 896 00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,320 there really is a place over at S4 near 897 00:32:55,970 --> 00:32:54,240 Papoose Lake I'm going to make him let 898 00:32:57,649 --> 00:32:55,980 me in I said well good luck on that yeah 899 00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,659 like says oh no they'll let me in he 900 00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:59,279 could get in he thought he could get in 901 00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:00,960 did he thought he could get in and he 902 00:33:04,130 --> 00:33:02,340 did get in and they didn't want him to 903 00:33:06,049 --> 00:33:04,140 come there he said he got all kinds of 904 00:33:08,210 --> 00:33:06,059 grief about it he says I'm coming in or 905 00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:08,220 else I'm shutting you down 906 00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:10,080 take note taking away their money yeah 907 00:33:15,409 --> 00:33:12,539 they took that threat seriously so he 908 00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:15,419 comes to uh Altamira I gave him sort of 909 00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:17,279 the my best idea about where the 910 00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:19,260 facility would be that that Bob Lazar 911 00:33:22,909 --> 00:33:21,000 had described to us and he says okay 912 00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:22,919 great I'm going and he went out there 913 00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:27,000 and on the day that he visited area 51. 914 00:33:31,850 --> 00:33:29,700 bad luck I don't know but there was a 915 00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:31,860 freak snowstorm I mean a blinding 916 00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:33,600 snowstorm it just doesn't happen that 917 00:33:37,789 --> 00:33:35,580 much out there but I mean it was like 918 00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:37,799 sideways snow he could barely see you we 919 00:33:42,529 --> 00:33:40,260 weren't supposed to fly he made them get 920 00:33:44,210 --> 00:33:42,539 in a helicopter and fly him to Papu's 921 00:33:46,130 --> 00:33:44,220 Lake and he'd landed on top of this 922 00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,140 Bluff and he looked around in the 923 00:33:49,850 --> 00:33:48,000 blinding snow and he didn't he didn't 924 00:33:51,769 --> 00:33:49,860 see anything which this is this would 925 00:33:54,289 --> 00:33:51,779 have been five years after Lazar told 926 00:33:55,610 --> 00:33:54,299 his story after we'd told the world that 927 00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:55,620 there was something there built in the 928 00:33:58,490 --> 00:33:57,120 side of the mountain so by that point 929 00:34:01,669 --> 00:33:58,500 they certainly could have hidden it okay 930 00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:01,679 okay so he he forces his way you know 931 00:34:06,769 --> 00:34:03,480 because he holds the money he forces his 932 00:34:09,050 --> 00:34:06,779 way to Area 51 they let him in then he 933 00:34:11,690 --> 00:34:09,060 says I don't care there's a blinding 934 00:34:13,550 --> 00:34:11,700 snow storm you are flying me to these 935 00:34:15,649 --> 00:34:13,560 coordinates that George Knapp told me 936 00:34:17,329 --> 00:34:15,659 and I'm gonna look around from the 937 00:34:20,030 --> 00:34:17,339 helicopter and he gets in the damn 938 00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:20,040 helicopter like a hero right for us I'm 939 00:34:25,369 --> 00:34:22,320 so excited and he gets out there to 940 00:34:28,490 --> 00:34:25,379 Papoose Lake where site four we know 941 00:34:30,589 --> 00:34:28,500 existed and existed this there but five 942 00:34:32,810 --> 00:34:30,599 years later and he's like looking around 943 00:34:33,950 --> 00:34:32,820 to try to would he tell you if he saw it 944 00:34:36,649 --> 00:34:33,960 would he have told yeah he would have 945 00:34:39,649 --> 00:34:36,659 told me okay and he's there and all of a 946 00:34:41,329 --> 00:34:39,659 sudden he's he's you can't see [\h__\h] that 947 00:34:42,589 --> 00:34:41,339 that's like because of the snow and all 948 00:34:43,849 --> 00:34:42,599 that stuff but also I mean it's a 949 00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:43,859 facility that's not supposed to be able 950 00:34:49,129 --> 00:34:46,320 to be seen you know from satellite what 951 00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:49,139 not but let's just say he gets there and 952 00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:51,359 like he literally like he he tells you 953 00:34:56,030 --> 00:34:53,520 like I can't see anything so I couldn't 954 00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:56,040 see anything and so we left and he was 955 00:34:59,210 --> 00:34:57,240 disappointed you know I talked to him 956 00:35:01,130 --> 00:34:59,220 afterward I assumed that he would told 957 00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:01,140 me if he'd seen something maybe not you 958 00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:02,760 know it's possible that he wouldn't but 959 00:35:07,609 --> 00:35:05,040 this was a very straightforward guy hard 960 00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:07,619 charging honest as a day is long I mean 961 00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:09,119 I was really impressed by the guy and I 962 00:35:12,890 --> 00:35:11,280 was impressed that he would put me into 963 00:35:14,810 --> 00:35:12,900 the circle of trust and talk to me at 964 00:35:16,370 --> 00:35:14,820 all and I agreed I was not going to do a 965 00:35:18,349 --> 00:35:16,380 report I never did a news story about 966 00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:18,359 him I never mentioned his name 967 00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:21,300 um and uh and you know years later now I 968 00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,980 feel comfortable in doing that because 969 00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:25,200 he's out of government but he was he 970 00:35:27,770 --> 00:35:26,460 came back from that meeting and was 971 00:35:29,450 --> 00:35:27,780 pretty disappointed pointed he said 972 00:35:31,609 --> 00:35:29,460 sister hold on Dick Tamara's still alive 973 00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:31,619 yeah yes man I would love to hear from 974 00:35:34,670 --> 00:35:33,359 dick D'Amato what that experience was 975 00:35:36,829 --> 00:35:34,680 like people have tried to reach out to 976 00:35:38,510 --> 00:35:36,839 him uh other people because the name has 977 00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,520 filtered out over the years but yeah 978 00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:40,560 he's he wants nothing to do with it well 979 00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:42,960 now yeah and now it's gonna be crazy 980 00:35:46,670 --> 00:35:45,359 when he came back from that meeting and 981 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:46,680 we had a conversation he was 982 00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,180 disappointed that he wasn't able to 983 00:35:52,370 --> 00:35:50,400 confirm the kinds of things that Lazar 984 00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:52,380 had told us and that we'd reported but 985 00:35:57,230 --> 00:35:54,060 he said look I think it is entirely 986 00:35:59,690 --> 00:35:57,240 feasible that this UFO cover-up exists 987 00:36:01,250 --> 00:35:59,700 within a private company a company he 988 00:36:04,010 --> 00:36:01,260 said it could be done in a company like 989 00:36:06,170 --> 00:36:04,020 EG and G or Lockheed or Northrop one of 990 00:36:08,510 --> 00:36:06,180 those big defense contractors and he 991 00:36:10,250 --> 00:36:08,520 said here's the deal when it comes out 992 00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:10,260 if I can prove that they've been 993 00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:11,880 diverting money from National Security 994 00:36:16,130 --> 00:36:14,400 efforts and programs to keep this UFO 995 00:36:17,089 --> 00:36:16,140 cover-up going people are going to go to 996 00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:17,099 prison 997 00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:19,020 which if you think about it that might 998 00:36:22,730 --> 00:36:20,880 be the best reason of all for the UFO 999 00:36:24,050 --> 00:36:22,740 cover-up is if people think that their 1000 00:36:26,270 --> 00:36:24,060 butts are on the line they'll go to 1001 00:36:27,950 --> 00:36:26,280 behind bars for who are lying about it 1002 00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:27,960 to Congress the American public and and 1003 00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:30,300 maybe diverting money do you think this 1004 00:36:37,130 --> 00:36:33,000 is a big type of conversation we're in a 1005 00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:37,140 new era hopefully where Arrow all domain 1006 00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:39,839 anomaly resolution office is not going 1007 00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:41,760 to be a Project Blue Book that they are 1008 00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,680 going to actively research which we have 1009 00:36:47,450 --> 00:36:45,599 indications they are and that they're 1010 00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:47,460 going to have a forward public-facing 1011 00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:50,760 element where they're not confusing the 1012 00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:52,560 the American public and Global public 1013 00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:54,780 they're going to be straight so my 1014 00:36:58,430 --> 00:36:56,160 question to you is and there's a big 1015 00:37:01,609 --> 00:36:58,440 topic conversation do you think people 1016 00:37:03,770 --> 00:37:01,619 should go to prison if they've been part 1017 00:37:06,589 --> 00:37:03,780 of the UFO cover-up 1018 00:37:10,250 --> 00:37:06,599 I don't know I you know I guess it would 1019 00:37:12,349 --> 00:37:10,260 be depend on how egregious The Acts were 1020 00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:12,359 that they did I mean I can understand in 1021 00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:14,760 1947 something strange crashes in the 1022 00:37:18,589 --> 00:37:16,619 desert outside New Mexico we've just 1023 00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:18,599 come out of World War II it's been a 1024 00:37:24,589 --> 00:37:21,839 terrible uh catastrophic War all over 1025 00:37:26,450 --> 00:37:24,599 the globe do we really what happens how 1026 00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:26,460 will the public react to this unknown 1027 00:37:30,530 --> 00:37:28,740 threat a really exotic 1028 00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,540 um possible threat I mean people might 1029 00:37:34,849 --> 00:37:33,119 freak out you know we I could see them 1030 00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:34,859 deciding they don't want to put the 1031 00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,540 American public through it especially 1032 00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:38,640 because no one knew for sure what that 1033 00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,560 what it was how the technology worked 1034 00:37:45,650 --> 00:37:42,480 could we duplicate it did the Russians 1035 00:37:48,410 --> 00:37:45,660 know about this or what in in defense of 1036 00:37:51,530 --> 00:37:48,420 the UFO cover-up 1037 00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:51,540 Secrets should be kept some but as Bob 1038 00:37:57,230 --> 00:37:54,320 Lazar has always said 1039 00:37:59,690 --> 00:37:57,240 the general topic that's outside of the 1040 00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:59,700 scope of a national security issue for 1041 00:38:05,150 --> 00:38:02,400 our country the general public has has a 1042 00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:05,160 has a need to know and a right to know 1043 00:38:11,630 --> 00:38:09,359 and we feel a duty to try and find out I 1044 00:38:15,230 --> 00:38:11,640 don't think anybody involved with the 1045 00:38:17,569 --> 00:38:15,240 cover-up should face any prison time I 1046 00:38:19,790 --> 00:38:17,579 don't care what they've done I think 1047 00:38:21,770 --> 00:38:19,800 there should be immunity and I think 1048 00:38:23,690 --> 00:38:21,780 that the import this topic is so much 1049 00:38:26,569 --> 00:38:23,700 more important than putting somebody 1050 00:38:27,890 --> 00:38:26,579 maybe with a family Behind Bars because 1051 00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:27,900 they were doing what they thought was 1052 00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:30,000 right for the country even if they lied 1053 00:38:34,910 --> 00:38:32,400 to Congress and Senate and even if they 1054 00:38:37,730 --> 00:38:34,920 hid and misappropriated funds I would 1055 00:38:40,849 --> 00:38:37,740 like if we said give everybody immunity 1056 00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:40,859 let's bring Humanity up to date with 1057 00:38:44,569 --> 00:38:42,060 what we know 1058 00:38:46,609 --> 00:38:44,579 uh so I would like to to say that I 1059 00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:46,619 nobody should be should be in my 1060 00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:48,420 personal opinion should be in trouble 1061 00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:50,160 for that I think we should move on let's 1062 00:38:54,170 --> 00:38:52,079 move on I'm with you on that up to a 1063 00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:54,180 point there are lines that should not be 1064 00:38:58,430 --> 00:38:56,400 crossed like what if you threaten to 1065 00:39:00,650 --> 00:38:58,440 kill somebody or if you actually do 1066 00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:00,660 silence them got you through violence 1067 00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:03,599 got you agreed agreed agreed if somebody 1068 00:39:09,410 --> 00:39:06,240 did that in the past yeah [\h__\h] lock 1069 00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:09,420 them away yeah so dick dimano comes out 1070 00:39:14,810 --> 00:39:11,520 he says look I think this program could 1071 00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,820 be housed in a private uh company as a 1072 00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:16,320 way to keep Congress from finding out 1073 00:39:20,329 --> 00:39:18,480 about it and if that happens and we can 1074 00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:20,339 prove it somebody would go to prison I 1075 00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:21,839 had the feeling from that conversation 1076 00:39:26,450 --> 00:39:23,940 on that he was going to stick with it so 1077 00:39:28,970 --> 00:39:26,460 I told him about Al O'Donnell without 1078 00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,980 telling him who aladonna was I said I've 1079 00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:30,960 been meeting with this guy who told me X 1080 00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:33,180 and I gave him the story could I meet 1081 00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,160 him do you think he'd be willing to talk 1082 00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:37,200 to me off the record I said well let me 1083 00:39:40,730 --> 00:39:38,880 ask him so I reached out to Al I hadn't 1084 00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:40,740 talked to him in a while and I told him 1085 00:39:45,290 --> 00:39:43,920 about uh senator uh dick damato and the 1086 00:39:47,569 --> 00:39:45,300 senator Byrd and what they wanted to do 1087 00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:47,579 and Al said okay I'll be with I'll talk 1088 00:39:53,569 --> 00:39:51,359 to him and he did and um and so he 1089 00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:53,579 didn't Al did not fess up he didn't give 1090 00:39:57,770 --> 00:39:55,740 him the whole routine that he had told 1091 00:39:59,810 --> 00:39:57,780 me about but he told him some of it and 1092 00:40:02,390 --> 00:39:59,820 he said look I'll talk to you further if 1093 00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:02,400 my old boss herb Greer one of the EG 1094 00:40:06,109 --> 00:40:04,740 folks the only one who's still alive if 1095 00:40:08,569 --> 00:40:06,119 he says I can tell you about it I'll 1096 00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:08,579 tell you about it and so dick D'Amato 1097 00:40:14,030 --> 00:40:11,820 goes to see her Greer okay so this is um 1098 00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:14,040 this is somebody that is now 1099 00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,400 being contacted who's active within EG 1100 00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:19,920 one of the top three you know yeah one 1101 00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:21,540 of the three one of the G's yeah one of 1102 00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:24,240 the G's right and and he's like herb 1103 00:40:27,950 --> 00:40:26,640 Greer meets with the motto and says yeah 1104 00:40:30,109 --> 00:40:27,960 you know I don't remember any of that 1105 00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:30,119 Flying Saucer stuff but if Al says it 1106 00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:32,220 okay you can go ahead and meet with him 1107 00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:34,140 he has my permission well he went back 1108 00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:36,540 met with uh with Al O'Donnell Al 1109 00:40:40,250 --> 00:40:38,700 O'Donnell wouldn't tell him anything we 1110 00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:40,260 shut it down I don't know really why 1111 00:40:44,089 --> 00:40:41,880 because I never got the straight story 1112 00:40:45,770 --> 00:40:44,099 from either of the two parties but he 1113 00:40:48,589 --> 00:40:45,780 clammed up so he's not talking to 1114 00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:48,599 D'Amato he won't talk to me anymore uh 1115 00:40:52,970 --> 00:40:51,119 at least for a long time and maybe 1116 00:40:55,069 --> 00:40:52,980 that's the end of it for the story well 1117 00:40:56,329 --> 00:40:55,079 it's not the end of it a couple years 1118 00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:56,339 later 1119 00:41:01,790 --> 00:40:59,760 I start hearing uh hints that 1120 00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:01,800 um Al O'Donnell had changed his story 1121 00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:03,300 that he's telling a different version of 1122 00:41:08,329 --> 00:41:05,700 it the way it came about is there's a 1123 00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:08,339 journalist named Annie Jacobson and 1124 00:41:11,810 --> 00:41:10,140 she's a what his writer for the LA Times 1125 00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:11,820 had a good reputation she started 1126 00:41:17,390 --> 00:41:14,460 working on a book about year 851. in 1127 00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:17,400 2007 she says she heard from a relative 1128 00:41:20,569 --> 00:41:18,960 that there was a group called The 1129 00:41:21,470 --> 00:41:20,579 roadrunners well I'd been reporting on 1130 00:41:24,170 --> 00:41:21,480 him for a couple of years the 1131 00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,180 roadrunners are all these veterans who 1132 00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:25,920 had worked out at Area 51 they'd worked 1133 00:41:30,890 --> 00:41:27,420 for the CIA they'd work for different 1134 00:41:33,170 --> 00:41:30,900 contractors test pilots uh had high 1135 00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:33,180 level security clearances had toiled an 1136 00:41:37,490 --> 00:41:35,520 obscurity out at that base to protect 1137 00:41:40,370 --> 00:41:37,500 the Americans it's that's where the cold 1138 00:41:42,770 --> 00:41:40,380 war was won is out there on the U2 and 1139 00:41:44,750 --> 00:41:42,780 then the a12 and the Blackbird planes 1140 00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:44,760 and later stealth but so all these all 1141 00:41:49,130 --> 00:41:47,040 these normal projects that are like you 1142 00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:49,140 know really specialized reconnaissance 1143 00:41:53,870 --> 00:41:51,839 platforms plain super fast super high 1144 00:41:55,130 --> 00:41:53,880 that's what the road runners is is there 1145 00:41:57,770 --> 00:41:55,140 like yeah roadrunners have worked at 1146 00:41:59,329 --> 00:41:57,780 Area 51 to develop these spy planes that 1147 00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:59,339 helped us win the Cold War and they'd 1148 00:42:02,810 --> 00:42:01,200 worked on a lot of other CIA Monkey 1149 00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:02,820 Business and Technology out there at 1150 00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:04,440 Area 51 a lot of really interesting 1151 00:42:07,790 --> 00:42:06,240 things like monkey businessman and 1152 00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:07,800 Monkey Business I had the ultimate 1153 00:42:11,450 --> 00:42:10,260 respect for all those men and women even 1154 00:42:13,970 --> 00:42:11,460 though we've done these stories about 1155 00:42:16,310 --> 00:42:13,980 Lazar and 50 and the saucers and all 1156 00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:16,320 that which they didn't hold in very high 1157 00:42:20,690 --> 00:42:18,960 regard but they invited me in 2005 to 1158 00:42:23,150 --> 00:42:20,700 their annual event it was not open to 1159 00:42:25,010 --> 00:42:23,160 the public but the TD Barnes was the 1160 00:42:26,930 --> 00:42:25,020 head of the road runners at the time and 1161 00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:26,940 he invited me to go to this event where 1162 00:42:30,770 --> 00:42:28,260 they all got together and I was the 1163 00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,780 first person to allow allowed in it I 1164 00:42:34,130 --> 00:42:32,160 was the first to bring a camera in there 1165 00:42:36,290 --> 00:42:34,140 and they did the first on-camera 1166 00:42:37,730 --> 00:42:36,300 interviews ever about the programs they 1167 00:42:40,250 --> 00:42:37,740 worked on they got permission for the 1168 00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:40,260 CIA to talk to me and was awesome I did 1169 00:42:46,609 --> 00:42:43,260 stories that that year in 05 again in 06 1170 00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:46,619 and 07 07 somebody tells Annie Jacobson 1171 00:42:51,290 --> 00:42:49,200 that the roadrunners exist and she 1172 00:42:52,990 --> 00:42:51,300 started pursuing a story thinking if 1173 00:42:56,510 --> 00:42:53,000 she's the first one on the on the trail 1174 00:42:58,910 --> 00:42:56,520 and she's and she puts together a really 1175 00:43:00,890 --> 00:42:58,920 good book called Area 51 and uncensored 1176 00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,900 history She interviewed dozens of these 1177 00:43:03,950 --> 00:43:02,160 guys a lot of the people that I had 1178 00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:03,960 interviewed before and others beyond 1179 00:43:08,030 --> 00:43:06,480 that she dug up a lot of documents and 1180 00:43:09,770 --> 00:43:08,040 the history of the base and programs 1181 00:43:12,130 --> 00:43:09,780 that going on out there and she puts 1182 00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:12,140 together this book and it's terrific 1183 00:43:17,930 --> 00:43:15,420 uh up until the last seven pages and the 1184 00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:17,940 last seven pages of her book she tells a 1185 00:43:22,490 --> 00:43:19,740 story about Al O'Donnell without naming 1186 00:43:24,109 --> 00:43:22,500 it except the story she tells that Al 1187 00:43:26,089 --> 00:43:24,119 O'Donnell shared with her is very 1188 00:43:29,089 --> 00:43:26,099 different from the one he told me years 1189 00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:29,099 before okay okay but did you know that 1190 00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:32,400 um did you know that Annie had it sounds 1191 00:43:37,069 --> 00:43:34,140 like a great book I should read it did 1192 00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:37,079 you know that she had got a hold of this 1193 00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,640 guy that you had gotten a hold of how 1194 00:43:43,010 --> 00:43:40,800 many decades before no I didn't I didn't 1195 00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:43,020 know that she was in touch with him I 1196 00:43:46,250 --> 00:43:44,520 knew she was talking to the other guys 1197 00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:46,260 because she had wanted to talk to me for 1198 00:43:49,970 --> 00:43:47,880 the book too you know I'd done a lot of 1199 00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:49,980 reporting on array 51 so I knew she was 1200 00:43:53,809 --> 00:43:51,900 talking to TD and the other roadrunners 1201 00:43:55,010 --> 00:43:53,819 you have no idea that Al O'Donnell was 1202 00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:55,020 one of them because he wasn't part of 1203 00:43:58,849 --> 00:43:56,400 the road runners he wasn't one of the 1204 00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:58,859 group look man people could this is why 1205 00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:00,240 I'm glad we record sessions like this 1206 00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,720 because people could uh 1207 00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:05,040 they would conserve so much of their 1208 00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:07,440 energy and time if they just went back 1209 00:44:11,329 --> 00:44:09,780 and went to you about what you had done 1210 00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:11,339 before what and that's the thing that 1211 00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,040 really helps me is that you have done a 1212 00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:16,800 lot of this before so now we're at a 1213 00:44:21,290 --> 00:44:19,020 point where we got a book the book is 1214 00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,300 really good it's it's you know kind of 1215 00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,760 explaining all of this what's the and 1216 00:44:27,950 --> 00:44:25,920 she got oh and she got Al O'Donnell but 1217 00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:27,960 doesn't name him so go hold on has the 1218 00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:30,720 world ever heard the name Al O'Donnell 1219 00:44:34,849 --> 00:44:32,220 yet about this yeah it's come out a 1220 00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:34,859 couple of times I confided in a couple 1221 00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:37,680 of people uh about Al O'Donnell and what 1222 00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:39,119 was coming and just keep it quiet 1223 00:44:43,609 --> 00:44:42,000 somebody spilled it anyway in fact it 1224 00:44:45,470 --> 00:44:43,619 came out at the citizens hearing that 1225 00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,480 you were part of are you serious it came 1226 00:44:49,130 --> 00:44:47,520 out in testimony there and they quoted 1227 00:44:51,530 --> 00:44:49,140 me as telling them the story they used 1228 00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:51,540 the name without my permission oh my God 1229 00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,220 not authorize that but they spilled it 1230 00:44:57,050 --> 00:44:55,680 anyway I'm so sleep deprived when I'm 1231 00:44:58,130 --> 00:44:57,060 running and gunning and doing this kind 1232 00:44:59,690 --> 00:44:58,140 of stuff so I don't even remember that 1233 00:45:02,390 --> 00:44:59,700 but just for our audience to know 1234 00:45:04,370 --> 00:45:02,400 because um I don't mention it a lot but 1235 00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:04,380 there was something called the citizens 1236 00:45:09,230 --> 00:45:07,200 hearing on disclosure and it was put 1237 00:45:11,390 --> 00:45:09,240 together by a guy named Reuben Langdon 1238 00:45:14,210 --> 00:45:11,400 and Reuben Langdon is like this unsung 1239 00:45:16,190 --> 00:45:14,220 hero of the citizen hearing because man 1240 00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,200 over all this time since we did that 1241 00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:18,960 together right it was like we have been 1242 00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:20,640 keeping that alive all of that is 1243 00:45:25,010 --> 00:45:22,079 available people can watch this 1244 00:45:26,569 --> 00:45:25,020 testimony all for free all on YouTube I 1245 00:45:29,089 --> 00:45:26,579 don't even know that web address citizen 1246 00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:29,099 hearing it's on YouTube but I just want 1247 00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:30,720 people to know that was a mock 1248 00:45:35,390 --> 00:45:33,839 Congressional hearing on the UFO topic 1249 00:45:37,069 --> 00:45:35,400 with great Witnesses it sucks somebody 1250 00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:37,079 leaked his name at that which I didn't 1251 00:45:41,089 --> 00:45:38,700 know I'm sorry I have no control of that 1252 00:45:43,130 --> 00:45:41,099 but but that was a mock Congressional 1253 00:45:45,050 --> 00:45:43,140 Hearing in hopes we would have a 1254 00:45:48,170 --> 00:45:45,060 congressional hearing and here we are 1255 00:45:50,089 --> 00:45:48,180 and we finally had a new Congressional 1256 00:45:53,329 --> 00:45:50,099 hearing on UFOs where all the Congress 1257 00:45:55,370 --> 00:45:53,339 was lied to by the Pentagon and we're 1258 00:45:56,750 --> 00:45:55,380 going to get specific about that but 1259 00:45:58,130 --> 00:45:56,760 anyway just I wanted to make sure people 1260 00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,140 understood what you meant by that that 1261 00:46:02,030 --> 00:46:00,480 sits in here O'Donnell's mentioned it 1262 00:46:03,890 --> 00:46:02,040 gets leaked a little bit but this is the 1263 00:46:05,870 --> 00:46:03,900 first time you're actually saying this 1264 00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:05,880 is the guy this is the case that's the 1265 00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:08,160 first time I'm saying it publicly and uh 1266 00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:09,839 I know that there are others who have 1267 00:46:13,609 --> 00:46:11,220 figured it out over the years because 1268 00:46:15,710 --> 00:46:13,619 some of them have come to me just acting 1269 00:46:17,329 --> 00:46:15,720 like jerks look I know it's Al O'Donnell 1270 00:46:19,849 --> 00:46:17,339 why don't you confirm it you owe it to 1271 00:46:21,710 --> 00:46:19,859 history to tell me you know I owe it to 1272 00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:21,720 you well you're confirming it now yeah 1273 00:46:26,270 --> 00:46:24,000 you're confirming it now yeah so Annie's 1274 00:46:28,130 --> 00:46:26,280 book comes out and it's a sensation I 1275 00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:28,140 mean it's a great book but it's those 1276 00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:30,000 last seven pages that get all their 1277 00:46:34,670 --> 00:46:31,680 media attention and it becomes a 1278 00:46:37,370 --> 00:46:34,680 bestseller the last seven pages she is 1279 00:46:40,010 --> 00:46:37,380 not identifying her Source but I 1280 00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:40,020 recognize exactly who it is based on the 1281 00:46:43,970 --> 00:46:41,880 descriptions in there and the story that 1282 00:46:45,230 --> 00:46:43,980 Al O'Donnell shared with her is much 1283 00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:45,240 different from what he shared with me 1284 00:46:49,790 --> 00:46:46,500 okay 1285 00:46:52,010 --> 00:46:49,800 pause so 1286 00:46:54,829 --> 00:46:52,020 you're saying that there's a different 1287 00:46:57,650 --> 00:46:54,839 story that he told her but something 1288 00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:57,660 happened prior to that and I I don't 1289 00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:59,280 know if you if you want to say that now 1290 00:47:04,430 --> 00:47:01,920 if you can say that now but you did 1291 00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,440 another interview with him or you had 1292 00:47:08,569 --> 00:47:06,480 him come in can you tell us what before 1293 00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:08,579 you tell us what the new story is can 1294 00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:09,839 you show us that I'm trying to remember 1295 00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:11,520 what the interview was about it was 1296 00:47:16,190 --> 00:47:14,400 unrelated to UFOs Area 51 any of that it 1297 00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:16,200 was more about the I think it was about 1298 00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:18,900 the atomic test Museum was was about to 1299 00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,599 open and and he was interviewed for 1300 00:47:25,970 --> 00:47:23,280 several videos they have these video 1301 00:47:27,230 --> 00:47:25,980 kiosks throughout the museum and he was 1302 00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:27,240 interviewed telling about the early 1303 00:47:31,309 --> 00:47:29,280 history of the Atomic Testing program in 1304 00:47:33,050 --> 00:47:31,319 Nevada and you press a button and up he 1305 00:47:34,970 --> 00:47:33,060 comes on video so I wanted to ask him 1306 00:47:37,130 --> 00:47:34,980 about that and it was a good excuse to 1307 00:47:38,750 --> 00:47:37,140 get him back and at klas to see if I 1308 00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:38,760 could talk to him about Hey where's my 1309 00:47:43,309 --> 00:47:41,040 tape was it a filmed interview yeah well 1310 00:47:46,370 --> 00:47:43,319 it was uh but we what happened was we 1311 00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:46,380 had Al and one of his sons were in a 1312 00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:49,260 conference room and my photographer Eric 1313 00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:52,319 had had put the camera there and he 1314 00:47:56,329 --> 00:47:54,240 inadvertently left it on and when we 1315 00:47:58,430 --> 00:47:56,339 both walked out he left it rolling and 1316 00:48:00,890 --> 00:47:58,440 so there's Al talking to his son and 1317 00:48:02,690 --> 00:48:00,900 saying oh boy this room is probably 1318 00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,700 bugged we better watch what we say and 1319 00:48:06,109 --> 00:48:04,079 then he says something like that poor 1320 00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:06,119 George he'll never get to the bottom of 1321 00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:08,880 this like he was feeling sorry for me 1322 00:48:13,130 --> 00:48:10,500 because I was never going to get the 1323 00:48:14,930 --> 00:48:13,140 real story on UFOs uh that's what I knew 1324 00:48:16,730 --> 00:48:14,940 you know after I saw it later after the 1325 00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:16,740 tape was I saw that it was on the tape 1326 00:48:19,849 --> 00:48:18,480 that we had recorded that private 1327 00:48:21,470 --> 00:48:19,859 conversation 1328 00:48:22,970 --> 00:48:21,480 um I realized oh yeah I'm never going to 1329 00:48:25,550 --> 00:48:22,980 get anything out of him again 1330 00:48:28,190 --> 00:48:25,560 I think I think what they do is uh this 1331 00:48:29,809 --> 00:48:28,200 particular artillery group they're known 1332 00:48:32,210 --> 00:48:29,819 as red lights or some 1333 00:48:33,530 --> 00:48:32,220 it's hilarious okay mother yeah but it 1334 00:48:34,670 --> 00:48:33,540 came from what I'll do is I'll get it go 1335 00:48:36,650 --> 00:48:34,680 ahead and turn the camera on and we'll 1336 00:48:39,849 --> 00:48:36,660 just shoot it oh okay all right very 1337 00:48:44,329 --> 00:48:42,829 oh George 1338 00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:44,339 be careful 1339 00:48:55,970 --> 00:48:53,870 and I I mentioned to him off camera 1340 00:48:57,470 --> 00:48:55,980 whether or not that tape had ever been 1341 00:48:59,809 --> 00:48:57,480 made and I think that is when he told me 1342 00:49:01,670 --> 00:48:59,819 yeah I made his deathbed confession to 1343 00:49:03,770 --> 00:49:01,680 you and he told you he told you he did 1344 00:49:05,329 --> 00:49:03,780 make and the other son indicated that he 1345 00:49:07,130 --> 00:49:05,339 was there that day he was the one that 1346 00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:07,140 had the tape so 1347 00:49:10,910 --> 00:49:09,180 um so does the sun still have the 1348 00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:10,920 deathbed that's a good question don't 1349 00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:13,260 know but that was the last time I saw Al 1350 00:49:17,450 --> 00:49:15,599 uh alive he died some years later but 1351 00:49:19,130 --> 00:49:17,460 the thing is this was truly inadvertent 1352 00:49:20,569 --> 00:49:19,140 you're you're filming him for something 1353 00:49:23,210 --> 00:49:20,579 else you leave the room when you get 1354 00:49:25,309 --> 00:49:23,220 into the editing station you realize the 1355 00:49:27,190 --> 00:49:25,319 camera had been recording no big deal I 1356 00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:27,200 do that all the time but they're saying 1357 00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:30,180 oh [\h__\h] poor George Never Gonna he's 1358 00:49:33,050 --> 00:49:31,680 never gonna learn the truth yeah about 1359 00:49:34,250 --> 00:49:33,060 UFO so they're saying that like what 1360 00:49:35,809 --> 00:49:34,260 does that mean what do you think they 1361 00:49:38,089 --> 00:49:35,819 meant no no I didn't know at the time 1362 00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:38,099 because that was of course before Annie 1363 00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:39,900 Jacobson's book comes out and then later 1364 00:49:45,230 --> 00:49:43,200 I I Feast pieced it together is that Al 1365 00:49:47,089 --> 00:49:45,240 changed the story and changed the 1366 00:49:49,010 --> 00:49:47,099 significance parts of the story some of 1367 00:49:51,050 --> 00:49:49,020 it was was the same that he was 1368 00:49:52,609 --> 00:49:51,060 confirming and some of it was not and it 1369 00:49:54,170 --> 00:49:52,619 became the most Sensational part of the 1370 00:49:56,089 --> 00:49:54,180 book it's the that part of the book that 1371 00:49:58,130 --> 00:49:56,099 got all the media attention the whole 1372 00:49:59,930 --> 00:49:58,140 Focus was on the last seven pages and 1373 00:50:03,109 --> 00:49:59,940 not the rest of it was really excellent 1374 00:50:05,630 --> 00:50:03,119 Albert aladonnell had told 1375 00:50:07,010 --> 00:50:05,640 um Annie that he was in fact part of 1376 00:50:09,290 --> 00:50:07,020 this program that there had been a 1377 00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:09,300 recovered blind saucer crashed into 1378 00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:10,319 Mexico 1379 00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:12,000 that had gone to Wright-Patterson Air 1380 00:50:16,430 --> 00:50:14,400 Force Base then came out to Nevada and 1381 00:50:19,490 --> 00:50:16,440 that he and a small group of people had 1382 00:50:22,190 --> 00:50:19,500 been working on it and a site adjacent 1383 00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:22,200 to Area 51 and I think the story he told 1384 00:50:28,609 --> 00:50:24,960 her was that they had two uh living 1385 00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:28,619 beings from survivors of the of the the 1386 00:50:33,710 --> 00:50:31,680 crash that were semi-comatos I guess and 1387 00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:33,720 that had been out there he told her that 1388 00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:35,520 they were not aliens that they were 1389 00:50:39,710 --> 00:50:37,440 humans that they'd been subjected to 1390 00:50:42,589 --> 00:50:39,720 horrible medical experimentation surgery 1391 00:50:45,230 --> 00:50:42,599 maybe genetic engineering by none other 1392 00:50:46,849 --> 00:50:45,240 than Dr Joseph Mengele 1393 00:50:49,069 --> 00:50:46,859 Joseph mingle of the doctor the 1394 00:50:50,990 --> 00:50:49,079 Concentration Camp Doctor Who who did 1395 00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:51,000 all kinds of horrible things to Nazi 1396 00:50:55,250 --> 00:50:52,859 prisoners concentration get folks in 1397 00:50:57,410 --> 00:50:55,260 World War II that somehow Mengele had 1398 00:50:59,690 --> 00:50:57,420 ended up not in South America which is 1399 00:51:01,970 --> 00:50:59,700 what history says where he went but he 1400 00:51:04,609 --> 00:51:01,980 had gone to Stalin had taken him into 1401 00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:04,619 custody after World War II Stalin puts 1402 00:51:10,130 --> 00:51:07,680 him to work building these beings these 1403 00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,140 composite beings to look like aliens and 1404 00:51:15,049 --> 00:51:12,559 then Stalin had also captured technology 1405 00:51:17,630 --> 00:51:15,059 developed by the Germans that the Horton 1406 00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,640 Brothers this Advanced uh flying machine 1407 00:51:22,130 --> 00:51:19,680 that they had built the Flying Saucer 1408 00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,140 put these concentration camp teenage 1409 00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:25,440 kids survivors in the pilot seat flown 1410 00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:27,839 it across the Atlantic Ocean and crashed 1411 00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:29,760 it in New Mexico intentionally 1412 00:51:33,950 --> 00:51:32,099 intentionally so that they could start a 1413 00:51:36,890 --> 00:51:33,960 panic they wanted to scare us thinking 1414 00:51:38,750 --> 00:51:36,900 aliens were invaded it's a Preposterous 1415 00:51:41,690 --> 00:51:38,760 idea it's a Preposterous on so many 1416 00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:41,700 levels I mean it's almost as crazy as 1417 00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,380 saying that UFOs aliens from other 1418 00:51:47,569 --> 00:51:45,359 planets yeah that's the thing I was 1419 00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:47,579 thinking man it's like it's like that is 1420 00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:51,660 a great movie script there's zero it's 1421 00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:54,240 so outrageously ridiculous it throws in 1422 00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:55,920 everything but and the kitchen sink it 1423 00:52:03,349 --> 00:51:59,280 is crazier than the UFOs so he tells 1424 00:52:06,109 --> 00:52:03,359 Annie this story that you know if she 1425 00:52:08,750 --> 00:52:06,119 had just known that the history of your 1426 00:52:10,370 --> 00:52:08,760 interactions if she had just known all 1427 00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:10,380 the stuff that came up she probably 1428 00:52:15,049 --> 00:52:12,240 would have seen that interview a little 1429 00:52:16,370 --> 00:52:15,059 bit differently but but here we are I 1430 00:52:18,049 --> 00:52:16,380 mean did she know before she published 1431 00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:18,059 it no but she and I have talked since 1432 00:52:22,849 --> 00:52:20,760 then like I understand uh you know that 1433 00:52:24,109 --> 00:52:22,859 story was so juicy how do you leave it 1434 00:52:27,170 --> 00:52:24,119 out and of course you know I don't 1435 00:52:28,790 --> 00:52:27,180 falter she reported it as Al related it 1436 00:52:31,130 --> 00:52:28,800 and she explained look this is a One 1437 00:52:32,990 --> 00:52:31,140 Source uh piece of information here I'd 1438 00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:33,000 like to corroborate it I can't but she 1439 00:52:36,829 --> 00:52:34,800 was very careful so I I don't fault her 1440 00:52:38,750 --> 00:52:36,839 at all that journalism if you're going 1441 00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:38,760 to tell a story and somebody of you know 1442 00:52:43,250 --> 00:52:40,800 High credibility does tell you something 1443 00:52:44,750 --> 00:52:43,260 that seems incredible you know you do 1444 00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:44,760 report it you report it word for word 1445 00:52:49,130 --> 00:52:47,760 you try to that and create context and 1446 00:52:51,470 --> 00:52:49,140 if you say you know I can't get anything 1447 00:52:52,970 --> 00:52:51,480 more that's fine but I mean I would I'd 1448 00:52:54,530 --> 00:52:52,980 figure you could have given her like a 1449 00:52:57,290 --> 00:52:54,540 full briefing up up to there on what 1450 00:52:59,089 --> 00:52:57,300 happened but that's but look so what 1451 00:53:00,890 --> 00:52:59,099 what I'm hearing 1452 00:53:03,470 --> 00:53:00,900 from understanding their stories 1453 00:53:05,329 --> 00:53:03,480 that's that's [\h__\h] that that's clear 1454 00:53:07,250 --> 00:53:05,339 and utter [\h__\h] look let's say you're 1455 00:53:08,870 --> 00:53:07,260 Joseph Stalin and you've built this 1456 00:53:10,490 --> 00:53:08,880 amazing flying machine based on 1457 00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:10,500 technology you got from the Horton 1458 00:53:14,210 --> 00:53:12,000 Brothers after the fall of the Third 1459 00:53:16,730 --> 00:53:14,220 Reich you build this machine and then 1460 00:53:19,069 --> 00:53:16,740 you put to Pilot it across the Atlantic 1461 00:53:20,870 --> 00:53:19,079 Ocean and across the United States you 1462 00:53:23,450 --> 00:53:20,880 give it to a couple of teenage mutants 1463 00:53:26,030 --> 00:53:23,460 who've been butchered by Joseph Mengele 1464 00:53:27,650 --> 00:53:26,040 to fly it and then you count on them to 1465 00:53:29,930 --> 00:53:27,660 crash it into Mexico 1466 00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:29,940 and hope that the government doesn't 1467 00:53:34,190 --> 00:53:32,400 cover it up which of course they did and 1468 00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:34,200 that it it creates some kind of a panic 1469 00:53:38,809 --> 00:53:36,240 well I can tell you some very specific 1470 00:53:41,089 --> 00:53:38,819 reasons why that is not true okay tell 1471 00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,099 me but that is a [\h__\h] meme right 1472 00:53:45,650 --> 00:53:43,200 there that is hilarious okay so so tell 1473 00:53:47,089 --> 00:53:45,660 me why well one one reason is because of 1474 00:53:51,290 --> 00:53:47,099 what I learned in Russia you know I went 1475 00:53:54,349 --> 00:53:51,300 to Russia twice in the 90s 93 and 96 and 1476 00:53:56,569 --> 00:53:54,359 was able to access was a brief window 1477 00:53:59,150 --> 00:53:56,579 where American journalists could go over 1478 00:54:01,549 --> 00:53:59,160 there and get information about secrets 1479 00:54:04,849 --> 00:54:01,559 from the Soviet era and what I found was 1480 00:54:06,589 --> 00:54:04,859 we we hired a Russian physicist who'd 1481 00:54:08,690 --> 00:54:06,599 been the National Security advisor to 1482 00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:08,700 the Russia's Parliament had been a 1483 00:54:12,650 --> 00:54:10,260 national security adviser to Boris 1484 00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:12,660 Yeltsin who and asked him hey can you 1485 00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:14,640 find us people who know about UFO 1486 00:54:19,490 --> 00:54:17,760 studies or UFO programs and we set them 1487 00:54:21,770 --> 00:54:19,500 up with an office we gave a stipend 1488 00:54:24,410 --> 00:54:21,780 spent about seven or eight months he he 1489 00:54:26,270 --> 00:54:24,420 did establishing contacts and sure 1490 00:54:29,390 --> 00:54:26,280 enough he found people who had never 1491 00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:29,400 spoken in public about this who are in 1492 00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:31,920 positions to know who confirmed that the 1493 00:54:36,170 --> 00:54:34,079 Russians had conducted the biggest UFO 1494 00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:36,180 investigation in history 10-year long 1495 00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:38,880 program that had thousands and thousands 1496 00:54:43,250 --> 00:54:41,280 of military Witnesses in cases very 1497 00:54:44,690 --> 00:54:43,260 dramatic incidents I found the guy who 1498 00:54:46,430 --> 00:54:44,700 was in charge of the program we 1499 00:54:48,589 --> 00:54:46,440 interviewed a number of scientists who'd 1500 00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:48,599 work on UFO Mysteries one of the guys I 1501 00:54:53,870 --> 00:54:51,839 interviewed was named Dr Valeri budikov 1502 00:54:55,790 --> 00:54:53,880 his mentor sorry about all these names 1503 00:54:57,770 --> 00:54:55,800 his mentor was a guy named Sergey 1504 00:54:59,390 --> 00:54:57,780 korloff who was the father of the 1505 00:55:02,210 --> 00:54:59,400 Russian Space Program he had built their 1506 00:55:03,770 --> 00:55:02,220 rockets and had had sent them you know 1507 00:55:05,630 --> 00:55:03,780 these gigantic rockets that took the 1508 00:55:08,690 --> 00:55:05,640 Russians into space they were way ahead 1509 00:55:12,049 --> 00:55:08,700 of us at the end of World War II 1510 00:55:14,030 --> 00:55:12,059 corolloff was close with Stalin 1947 the 1511 00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:14,040 Roswell incident happened the Russians 1512 00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:15,599 found out about it they knew and the 1513 00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:17,040 reason they knew is they had all these 1514 00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:19,200 spies in New Mexico of course they would 1515 00:55:24,589 --> 00:55:21,599 Roswell Army Airfield was the only 1516 00:55:26,510 --> 00:55:24,599 atomic bomb Wing in the world Los Alamos 1517 00:55:29,089 --> 00:55:26,520 lab is where the bombs were designed 1518 00:55:31,370 --> 00:55:29,099 where Sandia White Sands where their 1519 00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,380 rocket program was based if you were a 1520 00:55:35,450 --> 00:55:33,359 Russian spy New Mexico was the place to 1521 00:55:37,069 --> 00:55:35,460 be so when something strange crashed in 1522 00:55:39,530 --> 00:55:37,079 the desert out there they found out 1523 00:55:42,589 --> 00:55:39,540 about it what Dr budikov told me is that 1524 00:55:44,930 --> 00:55:42,599 corloff was called before Stalin 1525 00:55:46,910 --> 00:55:44,940 Stalin says hey there's been a crash of 1526 00:55:48,829 --> 00:55:46,920 something strange in the desert out near 1527 00:55:51,530 --> 00:55:48,839 Roswell New Mexico can you find out what 1528 00:55:53,630 --> 00:55:51,540 it is can you study the the information 1529 00:55:55,370 --> 00:55:53,640 that we have obtained meaning from 1530 00:55:56,930 --> 00:55:55,380 Russian spies and tell us what you think 1531 00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:56,940 and corloff got all the available 1532 00:56:01,430 --> 00:55:59,040 information came back and said it's not 1533 00:56:02,210 --> 00:56:01,440 ours it's not theirs it's from somewhere 1534 00:56:04,609 --> 00:56:02,220 else 1535 00:56:06,650 --> 00:56:04,619 meaning up there and Stalin says yeah 1536 00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:06,660 that's what others have told me too the 1537 00:56:10,370 --> 00:56:09,059 Russians did not build that craft that 1538 00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:10,380 crashed out there they were trying to 1539 00:56:13,250 --> 00:56:12,000 figure out what the heck it was and I 1540 00:56:15,650 --> 00:56:13,260 have that directly from the highest 1541 00:56:17,390 --> 00:56:15,660 levels of the Russian government wow so 1542 00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:17,400 that that's why so we're going to get 1543 00:56:22,370 --> 00:56:20,400 deep into your excursions into Russia 1544 00:56:24,349 --> 00:56:22,380 during blastness and perestroika the 1545 00:56:26,569 --> 00:56:24,359 only journalists that jumped in for the 1546 00:56:29,150 --> 00:56:26,579 UFO information talked to all the heads 1547 00:56:31,790 --> 00:56:29,160 of the UFO programs and smuggled back 1548 00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:31,800 documents from a foreign Nation back to 1549 00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:33,839 America and did a solid that I heard 1550 00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:35,280 through the grapevine through the 1551 00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,200 intelligence Community you did a solid 1552 00:56:41,690 --> 00:56:39,359 for the US of a at that time but before 1553 00:56:44,270 --> 00:56:41,700 we get into that you're telling me why 1554 00:56:46,790 --> 00:56:44,280 the story doesn't add up in the way that 1555 00:56:48,049 --> 00:56:46,800 the later fictionalized version that 1556 00:56:49,549 --> 00:56:48,059 this you know book got a lot of 1557 00:56:51,530 --> 00:56:49,559 information on and you're using this as 1558 00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:51,540 one of the reasons why can you just make 1559 00:56:55,849 --> 00:56:53,220 that like tell me like a four-year-old 1560 00:56:58,130 --> 00:56:55,859 explain to me why that helps well I mean 1561 00:57:00,829 --> 00:56:58,140 uh you know Al O'Donnell did end up 1562 00:57:02,569 --> 00:57:00,839 confirming a lot of what Bob Lazar had 1563 00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:02,579 told us that there was a crash sauce are 1564 00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:04,380 out there that it was stashed somewhere 1565 00:57:08,270 --> 00:57:06,720 near Area 51 adjacent to it that it was 1566 00:57:10,250 --> 00:57:08,280 studied that they did try to reverse 1567 00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:10,260 engineer it the idea that there were 1568 00:57:15,290 --> 00:57:13,200 bodies Bob had seen hints of that before 1569 00:57:17,390 --> 00:57:15,300 but he never was able to confirm it for 1570 00:57:18,829 --> 00:57:17,400 sure he saw reports and read things that 1571 00:57:21,890 --> 00:57:18,839 he didn't know if they're real or made 1572 00:57:23,809 --> 00:57:21,900 up the fact that their Annie Jacobson I 1573 00:57:25,370 --> 00:57:23,819 believe said it was S4 she thought she 1574 00:57:30,109 --> 00:57:25,380 called it S4 at least in some press 1575 00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:30,119 statements she named it so S4 exists at 1576 00:57:35,930 --> 00:57:32,880 Papu's Lake we now know Bob was there he 1577 00:57:38,030 --> 00:57:35,940 worked out there but yet Bob's the only 1578 00:57:40,370 --> 00:57:38,040 one that's not yeah really anyway let's 1579 00:57:41,930 --> 00:57:40,380 get a janitor who let's get past that 1580 00:57:43,549 --> 00:57:41,940 first so I mean you know the Essential 1581 00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,559 Elements of the story are true there was 1582 00:57:46,730 --> 00:57:45,359 a crash of some mysterious vehicle in 1583 00:57:48,170 --> 00:57:46,740 New Mexico and then it was taken to 1584 00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:48,180 Wright-Patterson and then it came out to 1585 00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:49,980 Nevada years later and they were trying 1586 00:57:54,170 --> 00:57:51,359 to take it apart to figure out how it 1587 00:57:57,370 --> 00:57:54,180 worked that's true the EG's involvement 1588 00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:57,380 I mean the fact is eg and G ran Area 51 1589 00:58:02,089 --> 00:57:59,520 from the beginning all the way through 1590 00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:02,099 the next 30 years they were not only so 1591 00:58:06,530 --> 00:58:04,319 such a key contractor at the Nevada test 1592 00:58:09,710 --> 00:58:06,540 site but also at 51 which is separate 1593 00:58:11,870 --> 00:58:09,720 the fact that EG and G's Place on Sunset 1594 00:58:13,849 --> 00:58:11,880 Road is where Bob Lazar said he was 1595 00:58:16,549 --> 00:58:13,859 interviewed for his job it's also by the 1596 00:58:19,130 --> 00:58:16,559 way another place uh important in UFO 1597 00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:19,140 what was he talking about EG and G the 1598 00:58:24,410 --> 00:58:21,180 physical building in Las Vegas that was 1599 00:58:26,690 --> 00:58:24,420 that was there in 1989 that Bob Lazar 1600 00:58:28,849 --> 00:58:26,700 said that's where he went in to take the 1601 00:58:32,030 --> 00:58:28,859 initial meeting to get his clearances to 1602 00:58:34,670 --> 00:58:32,040 go and and that building is where uh 1603 00:58:36,890 --> 00:58:34,680 where Alo Donald worked 1604 00:58:38,809 --> 00:58:36,900 in that building for a while in that 1605 00:58:40,849 --> 00:58:38,819 physical building physical building that 1606 00:58:42,849 --> 00:58:40,859 is also the building 1607 00:58:46,730 --> 00:58:42,859 that the famous 1608 00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:46,740 Wilson Davis memo or notes 1609 00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:48,480 it was in that parking lot the meeting 1610 00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,920 is that correct right yeah and that 1611 00:58:53,450 --> 00:58:51,359 building's no longer there it was 1612 00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:53,460 demolished when there was an expansion 1613 00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:55,200 of McCarran Airport what's now a Harry 1614 00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:57,599 Reid airport but it was moved I think 1615 00:59:02,450 --> 00:58:59,760 they now have a egg has an office out at 1616 00:59:05,690 --> 00:59:02,460 Nellis Air Force Base okay so so what 1617 00:59:07,609 --> 00:59:05,700 else gives you understanding that what 1618 00:59:10,970 --> 00:59:07,619 happened with Al O'Donnell's telling you 1619 00:59:14,089 --> 00:59:10,980 how it was at the beginning to his crazy 1620 00:59:16,210 --> 00:59:14,099 Joseph mangala you know children with 1621 00:59:19,010 --> 00:59:16,220 the intentionally crashed you know 1622 00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:19,020 flying machine to to make sure they try 1623 00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:20,640 to cover it up that whole ridiculous 1624 00:59:25,789 --> 00:59:23,760 thing what else tells you that that was 1625 00:59:28,130 --> 00:59:25,799 deception towards the end of his life 1626 00:59:29,630 --> 00:59:28,140 well it sort of uh goes it's kind of 1627 00:59:31,849 --> 00:59:29,640 consistent with what's happened on the 1628 00:59:34,910 --> 00:59:31,859 UFO Topic in general especially about 1629 00:59:36,710 --> 00:59:34,920 area 51. people who have done a 1630 00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:36,720 revisionist history about the base have 1631 00:59:41,809 --> 00:59:39,839 tried to say the CIA created all these 1632 00:59:44,089 --> 00:59:41,819 stories about flying saucers that that 1633 00:59:45,650 --> 00:59:44,099 they they encouraged it they wanted 1634 00:59:48,170 --> 00:59:45,660 people to think it was alien craft 1635 00:59:50,329 --> 00:59:48,180 instead of their spy planes that is 1636 00:59:52,190 --> 00:59:50,339 preposterous that's a bunch of crap why 1637 00:59:54,530 --> 00:59:52,200 they're making it up in in they're 1638 00:59:57,170 --> 00:59:54,540 trying to put a spin on it in reverse 1639 01:00:00,730 --> 00:59:57,180 engineer that the tail uh Dr Bruce 1640 01:00:04,010 --> 01:00:00,740 Maccabee Navy Optus Optical physicist 1641 01:00:06,829 --> 01:00:04,020 also a prime UFO investigator for 1642 01:00:09,650 --> 01:00:06,839 decades did a study and he he's tried to 1643 01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:09,660 look at this CIA claim that their spy 1644 01:00:14,089 --> 01:00:12,000 planes caused a spike in the sightings 1645 01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:14,099 of UFOs that they're responsible for UFO 1646 01:00:19,609 --> 01:00:15,599 reports okay I've heard I've heard this 1647 01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:19,619 a lot so it is often argued by the CIA a 1648 01:00:22,670 --> 01:00:21,240 lot actually because that was should we 1649 01:00:24,770 --> 01:00:22,680 tell that first time coach where we put 1650 01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:24,780 me in somewhere okay so this is pretty 1651 01:00:29,089 --> 01:00:27,359 funny so the CIA basically has had this 1652 01:00:31,250 --> 01:00:29,099 thing saying oh well if you look at UFO 1653 01:00:33,170 --> 01:00:31,260 sightings it's all us now we know you 1654 01:00:34,910 --> 01:00:33,180 have both settings go back you know to 1655 01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:34,920 you know beginning of recording human 1656 01:00:40,250 --> 01:00:37,200 history but I hear this so many times 1657 01:00:41,870 --> 01:00:40,260 that there's oh there's spikes in UFO 1658 01:00:45,410 --> 01:00:41,880 sightings because of these special 1659 01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:45,420 normal planes that we're creating we 1660 01:00:49,730 --> 01:00:47,760 hear that all the time but there's a 1661 01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:49,740 problem with that story and then I'll 1662 01:00:52,910 --> 01:00:51,599 tell how you put me in after that but 1663 01:00:54,650 --> 01:00:52,920 what is the problem with that story 1664 01:00:56,990 --> 01:00:54,660 specifically well there's several one is 1665 01:00:59,450 --> 01:00:57,000 a YouTube spy plane does not look like a 1666 01:01:01,069 --> 01:00:59,460 UFO it looks like a big gangly airplane 1667 01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:01,079 it's got big wings so if they're 1668 01:01:04,849 --> 01:01:03,119 suggesting that Pub the public on the 1669 01:01:07,069 --> 01:01:04,859 ground is around Area 51 and they're 1670 01:01:09,049 --> 01:01:07,079 seeing the U2 boy look at that Flying 1671 01:01:11,150 --> 01:01:09,059 Saucer it just it's Preposterous the 1672 01:01:13,910 --> 01:01:11,160 same thing is true for the a12 for all 1673 01:01:16,730 --> 01:01:13,920 the black Blackbird programs the SR-71 1674 01:01:19,130 --> 01:01:16,740 that came later there's a claim that the 1675 01:01:21,049 --> 01:01:19,140 that the number of UFO reports spiked 1676 01:01:23,390 --> 01:01:21,059 when these programs 1677 01:01:25,250 --> 01:01:23,400 um came into a being it's just a 1678 01:01:27,650 --> 01:01:25,260 absolute lie there is no such Spike 1679 01:01:29,630 --> 01:01:27,660 Bruce Maccabee looked at all the 1680 01:01:31,730 --> 01:01:29,640 available evidence all the citing 1681 01:01:33,589 --> 01:01:31,740 reports in connection with the same 1682 01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:33,599 dates when these programs became 1683 01:01:36,970 --> 01:01:36,000 operational there is no Spike at all and 1684 01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:36,980 of course 1685 01:01:41,450 --> 01:01:39,599 a YouTube spy plane does not hover over 1686 01:01:43,250 --> 01:01:41,460 people's homes it doesn't land in your 1687 01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:43,260 backyard it doesn't leave burn marks on 1688 01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:45,119 the ground which is where you know the 1689 01:01:49,789 --> 01:01:47,760 witnesses have said about actual UFO 1690 01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:49,799 reports no one's going to confuse the 1691 01:01:54,289 --> 01:01:52,079 YouTube's pipeline for UFO same thing 1692 01:01:56,809 --> 01:01:54,299 for the SR-71 these planes are designed 1693 01:01:58,789 --> 01:01:56,819 to not be seen they fly way way up there 1694 01:02:00,890 --> 01:01:58,799 the Public's not seeing them there might 1695 01:02:03,950 --> 01:02:00,900 be a pilot or two somewhere who would 1696 01:02:06,650 --> 01:02:03,960 see this but do pilots report UFOs no 1697 01:02:09,410 --> 01:02:06,660 they don't so there is no statistical 1698 01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:09,420 evidence that even a single U2 flight 1699 01:02:13,970 --> 01:02:11,760 was ever mistaken for a UFO that I've 1700 01:02:16,490 --> 01:02:13,980 ever heard and it's just so vast and 1701 01:02:18,289 --> 01:02:16,500 it's just so Global this is a ridiculous 1702 01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:18,299 claim and I want to drive that home it's 1703 01:02:23,870 --> 01:02:20,640 a ridiculous claim that our special 1704 01:02:27,410 --> 01:02:23,880 projects are correlated in any way with 1705 01:02:29,569 --> 01:02:27,420 the global Mass encounters and sightings 1706 01:02:31,789 --> 01:02:29,579 of the UFO phenomenon in its totality 1707 01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:31,799 now I do know some pilots who said I've 1708 01:02:36,109 --> 01:02:34,079 been a UFO before meaning you know 1709 01:02:37,549 --> 01:02:36,119 they've done some crazy [\h__\h] and you 1710 01:02:39,410 --> 01:02:37,559 know people have been like what is that 1711 01:02:42,410 --> 01:02:39,420 but that does not explain everything so 1712 01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:42,420 let's talk a second about the CIA thing 1713 01:02:47,030 --> 01:02:44,160 because this is hilarious and I want to 1714 01:02:50,690 --> 01:02:47,040 tell the audience about my favorite UFO 1715 01:02:53,569 --> 01:02:50,700 documentary of all time the only UFO 1716 01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:53,579 documentary completely funded and 1717 01:03:01,069 --> 01:02:58,559 produced by the CIA it was narrated by 1718 01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:01,079 Rod Serling who is the the voice of The 1719 01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:02,640 Twilight Zone I mean just the greatest 1720 01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:04,799 ever and it was in response to a 1721 01:03:08,990 --> 01:03:06,960 previous uh documentary where they were 1722 01:03:11,150 --> 01:03:09,000 kind of uh pushing down the UFO topic 1723 01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:11,160 being negative trying to dismiss people 1724 01:03:17,329 --> 01:03:14,760 this documentary is called UFOs past 1725 01:03:19,190 --> 01:03:17,339 present and future and it is an 1726 01:03:21,770 --> 01:03:19,200 excellent documentary narrated by Rod 1727 01:03:23,809 --> 01:03:21,780 Sterling that I actually have a link for 1728 01:03:26,930 --> 01:03:23,819 what we'll post it for people it is so 1729 01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:26,940 cool it's like an apology video right a 1730 01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:28,799 couple other things though is that I've 1731 01:03:32,750 --> 01:03:30,720 talked to people who have flown these 1732 01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:32,760 planes out of Area 51 in these secret 1733 01:03:38,750 --> 01:03:36,720 programs and I know for sure that the 1734 01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:38,760 first testing of these planes that were 1735 01:03:44,510 --> 01:03:41,520 supposed to be the highest ever the 1736 01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:44,520 highest flying planes ever at the time 1737 01:03:51,109 --> 01:03:49,440 did they had objects UFOs unknowns above 1738 01:03:53,450 --> 01:03:51,119 them when they did their first test 1739 01:03:55,549 --> 01:03:53,460 flights so somebody's got a tech that is 1740 01:03:57,470 --> 01:03:55,559 better than ours now the first time you 1741 01:03:59,930 --> 01:03:57,480 put me in coach I can't believe you 1742 01:04:01,849 --> 01:03:59,940 trusted me oh my God my beard was 1743 01:04:04,190 --> 01:04:01,859 probably way too long for the insanity 1744 01:04:08,450 --> 01:04:04,200 going on in my brain but you had me out 1745 01:04:11,930 --> 01:04:08,460 you had me out sorry I came out with my 1746 01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:11,940 camera first row at the Atomic Testing 1747 01:04:19,849 --> 01:04:14,880 Museum and you were interviewing on 1748 01:04:22,750 --> 01:04:19,859 stage the chief scientist for the CIA 1749 01:04:25,730 --> 01:04:22,760 out at Area 51 and the the head 1750 01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:25,740 historian for the CIA out of there if 1751 01:04:28,789 --> 01:04:26,880 you want and they were just going to 1752 01:04:30,530 --> 01:04:28,799 talk about area 51. so here comes the 1753 01:04:32,809 --> 01:04:30,540 bearded guy always holding the camera 1754 01:04:34,250 --> 01:04:32,819 and you didn't really know if I was a 1755 01:04:35,750 --> 01:04:34,260 loose Candy net now you know I'm a loose 1756 01:04:38,210 --> 01:04:35,760 camera yeah it's confirmed yeah 1757 01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:38,220 confirmed so uh so I was sitting there 1758 01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:39,839 thinking oh man please raise my hand 1759 01:04:43,670 --> 01:04:42,000 will George call on me I got a question 1760 01:04:45,770 --> 01:04:43,680 to ask and I think I asked him like 1761 01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:45,780 three questions and it was very specific 1762 01:04:49,970 --> 01:04:48,240 are you aware as the lead historian at 1763 01:04:52,970 --> 01:04:49,980 robarge is his last name are you aware 1764 01:04:55,250 --> 01:04:52,980 as a lead historian that the CIA funded 1765 01:04:57,170 --> 01:04:55,260 and produced a documentary called UFO's 1766 01:04:58,910 --> 01:04:57,180 past present and future and he was like 1767 01:05:01,010 --> 01:04:58,920 I don't have knowledge of that but then 1768 01:05:04,250 --> 01:05:01,020 I asked him about site four 1769 01:05:06,170 --> 01:05:04,260 and man it was I think it was genuinely 1770 01:05:08,329 --> 01:05:06,180 like they weren't maybe they didn't know 1771 01:05:10,309 --> 01:05:08,339 but it looked Shady they were like 1772 01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:10,319 Whispering back and forth and like so it 1773 01:05:13,309 --> 01:05:12,000 was just cool to be able to ask them 1774 01:05:15,109 --> 01:05:13,319 specifically and they they couldn't 1775 01:05:16,970 --> 01:05:15,119 confirm they had no specific knowledge 1776 01:05:18,410 --> 01:05:16,980 but that was so funny because I couldn't 1777 01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:18,420 believe you called I mean thank you for 1778 01:05:21,770 --> 01:05:20,400 that thank you and and being able to ask 1779 01:05:23,270 --> 01:05:21,780 them directly that was a big moment for 1780 01:05:29,930 --> 01:05:23,280 me to be able to film that just sitting 1781 01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:32,420 notified 1782 01:05:41,809 --> 01:05:39,109 my name is George Knapp I'm a journalist 1783 01:05:44,450 --> 01:05:41,819 at klas and unlike this these guys here 1784 01:05:46,549 --> 01:05:44,460 my connection to the topic of Area 51 is 1785 01:05:48,589 --> 01:05:46,559 a little more tenuous I have never been 1786 01:05:50,809 --> 01:05:48,599 inside the place I will never be allowed 1787 01:05:52,329 --> 01:05:50,819 to get inside the place uh but I'll tell 1788 01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:52,339 you I've been writing about it since 1789 01:05:58,370 --> 01:05:55,680 1985. I've spent I haven't been inside 1790 01:06:00,049 --> 01:05:58,380 but I've spent more days and nights 1791 01:06:01,849 --> 01:06:00,059 outside gearing in than you could ever 1792 01:06:03,950 --> 01:06:01,859 you can imagine trying to dodge security 1793 01:06:06,829 --> 01:06:03,960 and coyotes and whatever else is out 1794 01:06:09,410 --> 01:06:06,839 there and uh you know when I die I'm 1795 01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:09,420 sure that this will be somehow Area 51 1796 01:06:14,150 --> 01:06:12,180 will be part of my obituary along with 1797 01:06:17,089 --> 01:06:14,160 Tales of various debauchery and other 1798 01:06:18,890 --> 01:06:17,099 things like that this is a panel of 1799 01:06:20,990 --> 01:06:18,900 Extraordinary People United by their 1800 01:06:23,210 --> 01:06:21,000 interest in involvement with the most 1801 01:06:25,010 --> 01:06:23,220 extraordinary places we all know a place 1802 01:06:27,170 --> 01:06:25,020 that you know it's sort of a 1803 01:06:30,289 --> 01:06:27,180 contradiction in terms that is the 1804 01:06:32,029 --> 01:06:30,299 world's best known secret military base 1805 01:06:34,250 --> 01:06:32,039 um kind of the rock star of the Off the 1806 01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:34,260 Grid testing facilities It's A Place 1807 01:06:38,809 --> 01:06:36,480 With No Name and a place with a whole 1808 01:06:43,490 --> 01:06:38,819 lot of needs you know a Paradise Ranch 1809 01:06:45,650 --> 01:06:43,500 the Box a Watertown area 51 Dreamland or 1810 01:06:47,990 --> 01:06:45,660 the current official name very catchy in 1811 01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:48,000 my opinion an operating location near 1812 01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:50,700 Groom Lake but put that on a bumper 1813 01:06:56,510 --> 01:06:53,520 sticker or a t-shirt Area 51 as we all 1814 01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:56,520 know has been shrouded in secrecy uh 1815 01:07:00,589 --> 01:06:58,799 some would argue too much secrecy and 1816 01:07:02,390 --> 01:07:00,599 the cone of silence that was sort of 1817 01:07:04,849 --> 01:07:02,400 dropped over the base at least for a 1818 01:07:06,589 --> 01:07:04,859 while has been a contributing factor to 1819 01:07:08,630 --> 01:07:06,599 all kinds of wild stories that have 1820 01:07:11,450 --> 01:07:08,640 cropped up most of which I have reported 1821 01:07:13,309 --> 01:07:11,460 at one time or another so tonight we'll 1822 01:07:15,950 --> 01:07:13,319 talk about secrecy a little bit how and 1823 01:07:17,510 --> 01:07:15,960 why secrets are kept about some of the 1824 01:07:20,029 --> 01:07:17,520 steps that are taken to ensure that 1825 01:07:22,309 --> 01:07:20,039 secrets were and still aren't being kept 1826 01:07:24,170 --> 01:07:22,319 and we'll talk about the steps that have 1827 01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:24,180 been taken to lift the veil to allow the 1828 01:07:38,029 --> 01:07:26,160 public to finally know what really went 1829 01:07:43,490 --> 01:07:41,089 we did not talk about a lot of things it 1830 01:07:46,609 --> 01:07:43,500 went on during that period but during 1831 01:07:49,569 --> 01:07:46,619 that period the technology advanced in 1832 01:07:53,150 --> 01:07:49,579 Spain and Aeronautics and electronics 1833 01:08:00,120 --> 01:07:53,160 stealth and so on was the most advanced 1834 01:08:00,130 --> 01:08:06,109 [Music] 1835 01:08:06,119 --> 01:08:10,430 thank you 1836 01:08:24,890 --> 01:08:18,030 [Music] 1837 01:08:28,490 --> 01:08:26,990 I really appreciate you guys coming 1838 01:08:31,130 --> 01:08:28,500 forward and talking about all this it's 1839 01:08:33,829 --> 01:08:31,140 fascinating so as one of the highest 1840 01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:33,839 ranking CIA officials out at Area 51 1841 01:08:39,349 --> 01:08:36,239 during a very exciting time it sounds 1842 01:08:42,169 --> 01:08:39,359 like are you aware of a facility or 1843 01:08:52,430 --> 01:08:42,179 facilities on or near Nellis range 1844 01:09:06,790 --> 01:08:54,590 thank you 1845 01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:27,470 [Music] 1846 01:09:32,809 --> 01:09:30,289 you ever heard of an S4 at Tonopah there 1847 01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,819 is a size four a tonify test range which 1848 01:09:36,229 --> 01:09:34,560 by the way it's on a podcast branch is 1849 01:09:39,530 --> 01:09:36,239 listed in some of the Department of 1850 01:09:41,390 --> 01:09:39,540 energy phone books as Area 52 so that 1851 01:09:43,610 --> 01:09:41,400 that would explain the the public 1852 01:09:46,249 --> 01:09:43,620 acknowledgment from uh information 1853 01:09:48,229 --> 01:09:46,259 officer in 1989 when a well-known 1854 01:09:50,209 --> 01:09:48,239 journalist called and asked about a 1855 01:09:52,729 --> 01:09:50,219 facility called S4 they were probably 1856 01:09:54,770 --> 01:09:52,739 referring to the one in Tonopah most 1857 01:09:56,810 --> 01:09:54,780 likely yes and are there multiple or 1858 01:09:59,510 --> 01:09:56,820 single s scores that any of you are 1859 01:10:02,090 --> 01:09:59,520 aware of we had a size four that where 1860 01:10:03,890 --> 01:10:02,100 we parked our Soviet thank you very much 1861 01:10:05,390 --> 01:10:03,900 fascinating so the last question is for 1862 01:10:06,770 --> 01:10:05,400 Dr robarge 1863 01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,780 [Music] 1864 01:10:11,090 --> 01:10:08,640 um just that personal curiosity I get to 1865 01:10:13,790 --> 01:10:11,100 ask the you know weird questions 1866 01:10:16,370 --> 01:10:13,800 so as the chief historian to the CIA are 1867 01:10:19,070 --> 01:10:16,380 you aware of in 1971 the Department of 1868 01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:19,080 Defense asked for produced and publicly 1869 01:10:24,709 --> 01:10:22,560 funded a feature film titled UFO's past 1870 01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:24,719 present and future uh where it was 1871 01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:26,640 admitted on camera by high-ranking 1872 01:10:30,890 --> 01:10:29,280 officials in the military that UFOs as 1873 01:10:33,530 --> 01:10:30,900 far as they could tell were of 1874 01:10:34,970 --> 01:10:33,540 non-terrestrial origin are you aware of 1875 01:10:37,669 --> 01:10:34,980 that film and the funding of it by the 1876 01:10:40,550 --> 01:10:37,679 Department of Defense in 1971. no I'm 1877 01:10:43,070 --> 01:10:40,560 afraid not it's uh it would have no CIA 1878 01:10:46,189 --> 01:10:43,080 equity in it so the CIA is no longer 1879 01:10:47,870 --> 01:10:46,199 studying the UFO phenomenon or they are 1880 01:10:50,990 --> 01:10:47,880 they're not officially right now 1881 01:10:52,729 --> 01:10:51,000 studying the UFO economy 1882 01:10:54,350 --> 01:10:52,739 thank you 1883 01:10:56,090 --> 01:10:54,360 rails 1884 01:10:59,229 --> 01:10:56,100 anything else for our panel 1885 01:11:02,030 --> 01:10:59,239 I mean Secrets can be kept right 1886 01:11:03,410 --> 01:11:02,040 we hear this Washington leaks like a 1887 01:11:06,290 --> 01:11:03,420 sieve there's no such thing as a secret 1888 01:11:08,510 --> 01:11:06,300 Secrets can be kept 1889 01:11:11,570 --> 01:11:08,520 can't confirm or deny that we keep any 1890 01:11:11,580 --> 01:11:20,270 thank you very much 1891 01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:24,709 three 1892 01:11:29,330 --> 01:11:26,750 so now we're getting back to the idea 1893 01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:29,340 that okay so these UFO things we can't 1894 01:11:34,910 --> 01:11:32,400 say it's you know CIA planes and Area 51 1895 01:11:37,430 --> 01:11:34,920 planes what else tells you that 1896 01:11:39,830 --> 01:11:37,440 O'Donnell uh you know really why would 1897 01:11:42,350 --> 01:11:39,840 he do this why would he talk to Annie 1898 01:11:44,090 --> 01:11:42,360 and give this crazy movie that's crazier 1899 01:11:46,430 --> 01:11:44,100 than the worst B movie you've ever heard 1900 01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:46,440 you know you have to ask yourself did he 1901 01:11:50,930 --> 01:11:48,719 make up both versions of the story you 1902 01:11:53,390 --> 01:11:50,940 know did he did he lie to his family 1903 01:11:55,790 --> 01:11:53,400 about that story all those years uh the 1904 01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,800 the story that he told me and then uh 1905 01:11:59,209 --> 01:11:57,360 why did he what did he tell his family 1906 01:12:01,550 --> 01:11:59,219 about changing the version that he had 1907 01:12:04,310 --> 01:12:01,560 shared with me before I think that I had 1908 01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:04,320 heard that years later one of his sons 1909 01:12:08,149 --> 01:12:05,760 was going to write a book about their 1910 01:12:10,610 --> 01:12:08,159 dad after he passed um that hasn't 1911 01:12:12,950 --> 01:12:10,620 happened yet I never got to see the tape 1912 01:12:14,390 --> 01:12:12,960 assuming that it was it was made I was 1913 01:12:16,729 --> 01:12:14,400 told it was made and that one of the 1914 01:12:20,570 --> 01:12:16,739 sons had it but I'm unlikely to see it 1915 01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:20,580 the idea that the CIA created the UFO 1916 01:12:25,610 --> 01:12:22,560 mystery as a way to distract attention 1917 01:12:28,610 --> 01:12:25,620 away from spy planes is is ridiculous I 1918 01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:28,620 mean Area 51 did not become a UFO hot 1919 01:12:32,990 --> 01:12:30,480 spot because people outside the base 1920 01:12:34,970 --> 01:12:33,000 were seeing spy planes landing there it 1921 01:12:36,890 --> 01:12:34,980 became a UFO hotspot because the things 1922 01:12:38,990 --> 01:12:36,900 that people from inside the base were 1923 01:12:40,669 --> 01:12:39,000 saying what do you mean people who had 1924 01:12:42,290 --> 01:12:40,679 shared with me bits and pieces of 1925 01:12:43,010 --> 01:12:42,300 information who said they'd been out 1926 01:12:44,750 --> 01:12:43,020 there 1927 01:12:47,390 --> 01:12:44,760 and it's seen something that looked like 1928 01:12:49,729 --> 01:12:47,400 a flying saucer and a hangar or had seen 1929 01:12:52,430 --> 01:12:49,739 them land in the desert Security Guys 1930 01:12:54,350 --> 01:12:52,440 scientists electronic technicians and 1931 01:12:56,810 --> 01:12:54,360 other people who'd been at the base in 1932 01:12:57,890 --> 01:12:56,820 the 50s 60s 70s and 80s who shared 1933 01:13:00,590 --> 01:12:57,900 little bits of pieces of information 1934 01:13:03,410 --> 01:13:00,600 with me to bolster the account that had 1935 01:13:05,930 --> 01:13:03,420 been told by Bob Lazar I get it so so 1936 01:13:07,370 --> 01:13:05,940 people try to claim that uh you know a 1937 01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:07,380 lot of these sightings are from the 1938 01:13:10,310 --> 01:13:09,120 outside and they're misidentifying 1939 01:13:11,390 --> 01:13:10,320 things what you're saying and I know 1940 01:13:13,010 --> 01:13:11,400 this to be true now that I understand 1941 01:13:14,990 --> 01:13:13,020 what you're saying it's really people 1942 01:13:18,649 --> 01:13:15,000 from the inside that came to you and 1943 01:13:20,810 --> 01:13:18,659 come to us now so wow yeah that kind of 1944 01:13:23,209 --> 01:13:20,820 let that sink in a second I I really 1945 01:13:25,430 --> 01:13:23,219 appreciate that Al O'Donnell uh shared 1946 01:13:27,290 --> 01:13:25,440 this information with me I'm I'm glad 1947 01:13:28,970 --> 01:13:27,300 that he shared a version of the story 1948 01:13:31,550 --> 01:13:28,980 with Annie even though that they're very 1949 01:13:34,370 --> 01:13:31,560 much in Conflict the more light that is 1950 01:13:35,570 --> 01:13:34,380 shed on Area 51 uh you know long up to a 1951 01:13:38,450 --> 01:13:35,580 certain point that we don't endanger 1952 01:13:40,370 --> 01:13:38,460 National Security the better and I wish 1953 01:13:42,410 --> 01:13:40,380 that I could get a definitive answer one 1954 01:13:44,390 --> 01:13:42,420 of these days about which version if 1955 01:13:45,649 --> 01:13:44,400 either of them is true 1956 01:13:46,250 --> 01:13:45,659 well 1957 01:13:48,350 --> 01:13:46,260 um 1958 01:13:53,649 --> 01:13:48,360 [\h__\h] 1959 01:13:56,149 --> 01:13:53,659 well I don't know man I I guess the um 1960 01:13:58,070 --> 01:13:56,159 I guess the question that I have now 1961 01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:58,080 coming 1962 01:14:03,950 --> 01:14:01,199 are you ever going to get the deathbed 1963 01:14:07,610 --> 01:14:03,960 confession tape that this guy made for 1964 01:14:09,350 --> 01:14:07,620 you from his son doubtful why 1965 01:14:10,610 --> 01:14:09,360 I've had no contact with him for a long 1966 01:14:12,709 --> 01:14:10,620 time 1967 01:14:14,510 --> 01:14:12,719 um I think that they it depends on which 1968 01:14:16,370 --> 01:14:14,520 version it is they may not the one that 1969 01:14:18,110 --> 01:14:16,380 he recorded may not be the official 1970 01:14:19,430 --> 01:14:18,120 story that they want out anymore they 1971 01:14:21,350 --> 01:14:19,440 might prefer the one that they told 1972 01:14:23,450 --> 01:14:21,360 Annie Jacobson 1973 01:14:25,070 --> 01:14:23,460 um I don't have any contact with the 1974 01:14:27,470 --> 01:14:25,080 family anymore maybe I should try to 1975 01:14:28,910 --> 01:14:27,480 reach out to him but uh yeah before this 1976 01:14:31,610 --> 01:14:28,920 episode goes live I think you should 1977 01:14:33,709 --> 01:14:31,620 seems doubtful that um that it's gonna 1978 01:14:36,350 --> 01:14:33,719 it's gonna happen but you know I was 1979 01:14:38,270 --> 01:14:36,360 really happy to be able to 1980 01:14:41,090 --> 01:14:38,280 um interact with how all those all those 1981 01:14:42,770 --> 01:14:41,100 years ago and uh really wish that I was 1982 01:14:44,570 --> 01:14:42,780 in a position to give more definitive 1983 01:14:46,189 --> 01:14:44,580 proof about it but I was just wanted to 1984 01:14:47,450 --> 01:14:46,199 explain to people the process of how it 1985 01:14:49,729 --> 01:14:47,460 worked and how you tried to develop 1986 01:14:52,130 --> 01:14:49,739 sources in this wacky field yeah you 1987 01:14:54,590 --> 01:14:52,140 always say the trick to being seen as 1988 01:14:57,110 --> 01:14:54,600 trustworthy is to actually consistently 1989 01:14:58,669 --> 01:14:57,120 be trustworthy and you know you've kind 1990 01:15:01,310 --> 01:14:58,679 of told me a few things in journalism 1991 01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:01,320 that are like you know the solid points 1992 01:15:06,410 --> 01:15:03,840 and the first thing you ever told me is 1993 01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:06,420 protect your sources even if they don't 1994 01:15:09,950 --> 01:15:07,980 protect themselves 1995 01:15:12,169 --> 01:15:09,960 and then the second thing was the 1996 01:15:14,030 --> 01:15:12,179 trustworthiness you know and I think 1997 01:15:15,290 --> 01:15:14,040 that you have to consistently show that 1998 01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:15,300 because for you and me and our 1999 01:15:20,169 --> 01:15:17,760 experiences even today which we're you 2000 01:15:23,510 --> 01:15:20,179 know we can't talk about but even today 2001 01:15:25,970 --> 01:15:23,520 the idea that somebody would call us 2002 01:15:28,070 --> 01:15:25,980 right and and 2003 01:15:30,290 --> 01:15:28,080 we have to prove again that we're 2004 01:15:31,550 --> 01:15:30,300 trustworthy and and you've got to do 2005 01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:31,560 that you got to do that you know don't 2006 01:15:36,470 --> 01:15:33,840 tell anybody about this you promised me 2007 01:15:37,970 --> 01:15:36,480 and and I love that I'm like okay I did 2008 01:15:39,290 --> 01:15:37,980 promise you I'm confirming to you again 2009 01:15:41,689 --> 01:15:39,300 because people get kind of panicked yeah 2010 01:15:43,669 --> 01:15:41,699 so your process as a journalist when you 2011 01:15:45,169 --> 01:15:43,679 have had these sources that were 2012 01:15:47,209 --> 01:15:45,179 threatened and you had these sources 2013 01:15:49,370 --> 01:15:47,219 that confide in you and have these 2014 01:15:51,350 --> 01:15:49,380 sources create death bad confessions but 2015 01:15:52,970 --> 01:15:51,360 you can't [\h__\h] release it you know we 2016 01:15:54,590 --> 01:15:52,980 get a lot of flack for that I mean I 2017 01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:54,600 don't read online anymore I'm sorry guys 2018 01:15:57,709 --> 01:15:56,400 that Dawn is too crazy right but like 2019 01:15:59,990 --> 01:15:57,719 people sent me screenshots what people 2020 01:16:01,970 --> 01:16:00,000 are saying they get so mad 2021 01:16:04,970 --> 01:16:01,980 like we're sitting on stuff so for 2022 01:16:07,570 --> 01:16:04,980 example when we released when we 2023 01:16:10,850 --> 01:16:07,580 released that mosul orb image 2024 01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:10,860 uh we had been sitting on this for a 2025 01:16:15,050 --> 01:16:13,199 long time but we had to go because we 2026 01:16:16,850 --> 01:16:15,060 don't know who gave it to us directly 2027 01:16:18,530 --> 01:16:16,860 but then we started getting it from 2028 01:16:20,630 --> 01:16:18,540 multiple people we always make sure that 2029 01:16:23,689 --> 01:16:20,640 we don't know where an image comes from 2030 01:16:25,370 --> 01:16:23,699 directly and so you know sometimes we do 2031 01:16:27,290 --> 01:16:25,380 not directly but we're protected by 2032 01:16:30,590 --> 01:16:27,300 Shield law as journalists in America 2033 01:16:33,290 --> 01:16:30,600 right so which means that we can protect 2034 01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:33,300 our sources so anybody that gives us 2035 01:16:38,330 --> 01:16:35,520 stuff we can protect them because we are 2036 01:16:39,890 --> 01:16:38,340 protected but people get mad that we sit 2037 01:16:41,930 --> 01:16:39,900 back on on information if you've got 2038 01:16:44,270 --> 01:16:41,940 such great information put it out here's 2039 01:16:45,290 --> 01:16:44,280 the deal people have families people 2040 01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:45,300 will 2041 01:16:50,750 --> 01:16:48,239 they're taking a huge risk sometimes not 2042 01:16:52,550 --> 01:16:50,760 always but sometimes now we have to 2043 01:16:54,709 --> 01:16:52,560 consistently we have to consistently 2044 01:16:57,770 --> 01:16:54,719 show that we are worthy of that trust as 2045 01:16:59,390 --> 01:16:57,780 reporters and journalists so we have to 2046 01:17:00,890 --> 01:16:59,400 also have that stuff because we don't 2047 01:17:02,750 --> 01:17:00,900 like everybody else you can just like 2048 01:17:05,570 --> 01:17:02,760 throw something up on Twitter to get a 2049 01:17:07,490 --> 01:17:05,580 bunch of hits hold on these are people's 2050 01:17:08,810 --> 01:17:07,500 lives and when we want to know ourselves 2051 01:17:11,330 --> 01:17:08,820 we want to know if this is right 2052 01:17:13,630 --> 01:17:11,340 information and every single thing you 2053 01:17:16,010 --> 01:17:13,640 and I have put out has been verified 2054 01:17:17,930 --> 01:17:16,020 authenticated and if people think it's 2055 01:17:20,990 --> 01:17:17,940 not and there's there's talk otherwise 2056 01:17:22,850 --> 01:17:21,000 hold on to your seats yeah isn't that 2057 01:17:25,370 --> 01:17:22,860 mosul orb wasn't that a raindrop or 2058 01:17:27,410 --> 01:17:25,380 something on the on the lens I heard it 2059 01:17:29,630 --> 01:17:27,420 was a pothole yeah I mean everything 2060 01:17:33,169 --> 01:17:29,640 except for around seagulls everything 2061 01:17:34,189 --> 01:17:33,179 but the kitchen sink or a UFO yeah look 2062 01:17:36,110 --> 01:17:34,199 um 2063 01:17:39,169 --> 01:17:36,120 I wish 2064 01:17:42,290 --> 01:17:39,179 that with the information 2065 01:17:44,330 --> 01:17:42,300 that we have right that we could just 2066 01:17:48,229 --> 01:17:44,340 you know give everybody the smack like 2067 01:17:50,630 --> 01:17:48,239 that it's not our job I am hoping that 2068 01:17:53,090 --> 01:17:50,640 our government is honest with the 2069 01:17:55,370 --> 01:17:53,100 American people the arrow that the new 2070 01:17:58,729 --> 01:17:55,380 UFO office is honest with the American 2071 01:18:02,450 --> 01:17:58,739 people and has a a promotion of an idea 2072 01:18:06,229 --> 01:18:02,460 of transparency UFO transparency it is 2073 01:18:09,050 --> 01:18:06,239 not our job to do everything it is our 2074 01:18:11,330 --> 01:18:09,060 job to address the issues make them 2075 01:18:13,070 --> 01:18:11,340 public and see where the chips fall I 2076 01:18:15,290 --> 01:18:13,080 believe in other people there are great 2077 01:18:18,110 --> 01:18:15,300 people working on this right now I have 2078 01:18:19,850 --> 01:18:18,120 never been resisted always assisted 2079 01:18:22,250 --> 01:18:19,860 different than you I've never been 2080 01:18:24,350 --> 01:18:22,260 resisted so I I really hope I'm very 2081 01:18:26,810 --> 01:18:24,360 hopeful and optimistic as as a person I 2082 01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:26,820 am but the UFO topic UFO truth and I do 2083 01:18:31,910 --> 01:18:29,280 think this could be the biggest story of 2084 01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:31,920 all time if we find out some of the 2085 01:18:36,290 --> 01:18:34,560 truth well the jury is still out on 2086 01:18:37,850 --> 01:18:36,300 Arrow I'd like to believe that they're 2087 01:18:39,350 --> 01:18:37,860 going to live up to the promises that 2088 01:18:41,330 --> 01:18:39,360 they've made that there are going to 2089 01:18:42,709 --> 01:18:41,340 strive toward transparency I haven't 2090 01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:42,719 seen it yet I haven't seen a whole lot 2091 01:18:46,729 --> 01:18:45,120 of indication that's true I do give them 2092 01:18:49,669 --> 01:18:46,739 the benefit of the doubt in that they 2093 01:18:52,310 --> 01:18:49,679 they're tackling this it's taken me like 2094 01:18:54,350 --> 01:18:52,320 35 years to get my head around it and 2095 01:18:56,689 --> 01:18:54,360 it's a steep learning curve for them to 2096 01:18:57,950 --> 01:18:56,699 figure it all out so I'm willing to cut 2097 01:18:59,930 --> 01:18:57,960 them a little bit of slack for a while 2098 01:19:02,090 --> 01:18:59,940 what I've seen so far has not been 2099 01:19:03,770 --> 01:19:02,100 encouraging but I'm hope hoping that 2100 01:19:05,810 --> 01:19:03,780 they'll live up to the lofty promises 2101 01:19:07,610 --> 01:19:05,820 that they've made well I I do know that 2102 01:19:09,410 --> 01:19:07,620 people reach out to us all the time to 2103 01:19:11,390 --> 01:19:09,420 wrap their head around the bigger issues 2104 01:19:12,890 --> 01:19:11,400 right to see to so they don't spin their 2105 01:19:15,410 --> 01:19:12,900 wheels that you know I know that that 2106 01:19:17,450 --> 01:19:15,420 does happen I am actually encouraged but 2107 01:19:19,610 --> 01:19:17,460 by arrow and and the reason I am 2108 01:19:22,130 --> 01:19:19,620 encouraged by arrow that it's not going 2109 01:19:23,570 --> 01:19:22,140 to be a Project Blue Book whitewash kind 2110 01:19:25,850 --> 01:19:23,580 of thing is because of the The 2111 01:19:28,850 --> 01:19:25,860 Whistleblower legislation and if you 2112 01:19:30,830 --> 01:19:28,860 just look at the arrow PowerPoint I 2113 01:19:33,229 --> 01:19:30,840 think it's like seven pages that tell 2114 01:19:35,149 --> 01:19:33,239 their mandate the Departments that are 2115 01:19:38,510 --> 01:19:35,159 involved it nationally and 2116 01:19:41,090 --> 01:19:38,520 internationally it is set up to be 2117 01:19:45,169 --> 01:19:41,100 serious it always ends up being who's 2118 01:19:47,570 --> 01:19:45,179 the head if the head says okay let's be 2119 01:19:50,030 --> 01:19:47,580 transparent like our friend 2120 01:19:53,149 --> 01:19:50,040 um Jay Stratton you know he directly 2121 01:19:55,250 --> 01:19:53,159 told us that what he wanted to do was 2122 01:19:57,290 --> 01:19:55,260 not have another Project Blue Book what 2123 01:19:59,689 --> 01:19:57,300 he wanted to do as a person as an 2124 01:20:01,550 --> 01:19:59,699 individual was to have an open dialogue 2125 01:20:03,830 --> 01:20:01,560 with the American public about what's 2126 01:20:05,330 --> 01:20:03,840 going on with UFOs and I think he did a 2127 01:20:07,189 --> 01:20:05,340 spectacular job when he was in that 2128 01:20:10,370 --> 01:20:07,199 position of power to try to do that and 2129 01:20:12,410 --> 01:20:10,380 now talking publicly everywhere else and 2130 01:20:15,410 --> 01:20:12,420 kind of putting himself out there I 2131 01:20:17,689 --> 01:20:15,420 admire him I admire that he does that I 2132 01:20:19,610 --> 01:20:17,699 fingers crossed and I am I am encouraged 2133 01:20:21,229 --> 01:20:19,620 by that document right by that 2134 01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:21,239 PowerPoint that they're on the right 2135 01:20:24,950 --> 01:20:23,760 track and if arrow is listening at the 2136 01:20:26,750 --> 01:20:24,960 people that work in there are listening 2137 01:20:29,390 --> 01:20:26,760 hey ma'am 2138 01:20:31,669 --> 01:20:29,400 the American public wants that they want 2139 01:20:34,189 --> 01:20:31,679 honesty they want truth it is your duty 2140 01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:34,199 you work for the American people please 2141 01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:36,239 do it right because if not you're going 2142 01:20:44,570 --> 01:20:48,169 [Music] 2143 01:21:02,440 --> 01:20:52,550 never have so few had so much to tell 2144 01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:04,729 [Music]